Straight-lining corners

[MarkH]

Agreed, "safe" is a relative term, "completely safe" is not.

I am not sure that I have ever used "completely safe", if I have it was unintentional - I never think of anything as completely safe. When I say "completely sure that it is safe" I don't mean "sure that it is completely safe" because if that was what I meant then that would be what I said (unless I accidentally said something different to what I meant). In "completely sure that it is safe" the word "safe" is intended on it's own as a relative term, "completely sure" is intended to mean at the least "very very sure" or "with as much certainty as you can ever have in these things".

My message has simply been that if you think that it is probably safe to cut the corner because there are no cars coming the other way that you can see then you should not consider that good enough to risk a head on collision by crossing the centre line. You should be much more certain than that of the relative safety before considering crossing the centre line. Hopefully most here can understand my point and will avoid casually and carelessly risking death just to get through a corner at a little higher speed.

[Oscar]

I am not sure that I have ever used "completely safe", if I have it was unintentional - I never think of anything as completely safe. When I say "completely sure that it is safe" I don't mean "sure that it is completely safe" because if that was what I meant then that would be what I said (unless I accidentally said something different to what I meant). In "completely sure that it is safe" the word "safe" is intended on it's own as a relative term, "completely sure" is intended to mean at the least "very very sure" or "with as much certainty as you can ever have in these things".

My message has simply been that if you think that it is probably safe to cut the corner because there are no cars coming the other way that you can see then you should not consider that good enough to risk a head on collision by crossing the centre line. You should be much more certain than that of the relative safety before considering crossing the centre line. Hopefully most here can understand my point and will avoid casually and carelessly risking death just to get through a corner at a little higher speed.

Most?
Whadda the rest do?
Die painfully?

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

My message has simply been that if you think that it is probably safe to cut the corner because there are no cars coming the other way that you can see then you should not consider that good enough to risk a head on collision by crossing the centre line. You should be much more certain than that of the relative safety before considering crossing the centre line. Hopefully most here can understand my point and will avoid casually and carelessly risking death just to get through a corner at a little higher speed.

There is only 2 reasons I can see why some one would want to cut corners...

1. To get where they are going quicker, or to be on time... Simple fix. Leave earlier.
2. You over cooked a corner because you are going to fast. Simple fix. Slow the fuck down.

simply don't do it... there is no need to do it... none what so ever...

[MarkH]

Most?
Whadda the rest do?
Die painfully?

I suppose some might. I guess everyone will do what they want, hopefully very few will take needless risks and come to severe misfortune.

More importantly I hope that things don't turn pear shaped for me in a major way. I don't know everything so I will go to the RRRS course tomorrow to see if I can learn how to reduce the risk of dying on a bike for me.

[Oscar]

I suppose some might. I guess everyone will do what they want, hopefully very few will take needless risks and come to severe misfortune.

More importantly I hope that things don't turn pear shaped for me in a major way. I don't know everything so I will go to the RRRS course tomorrow to see if I can learn how to reduce the risk of dying on a bike for me.

Then maybe you should wait until after your course before offering advice on-line...

[MarkH]

Then maybe you should wait until after your course before offering advice on-line...

Why? Will I become some kind of expert once I have done that course? Is everyone else offering advice & opinion on this forum a graduate of that course? Is 26+ years of driving & riding on the roads in New Zealand meaningless until I do a RRRS course?

[Oscar]

Why? Will I become some kind of expert once I have done that course? Is everyone else offering advice & opinion on this forum a graduate of that course? Is 26+ years of driving & riding on the roads in New Zealand meaningless until I do a RRRS course?

Will you become an expert?
Based on your comments here, I doubt that one course will do it.

As far as I'm concerned, my expert piece of advice would be along the lines of:

Don't do it.
Don't offer advice that advocates crossing the centreline on a forum where you know young and inexperienced riders will be participating.

[MarkH]

Don't offer advice that advocates crossing the centreline on a forum where you know young and inexperienced riders will be participating.

So instead of a public forum where we can freely express our opinions we should keep quiet for fear of someone killing themselves because they took something said on this forum and misapplied it?

If we don't say there are situations where it is safe to cross the centre line then inexperienced riders wont do it?

[scumdog]

If we don't say there are situations where it is safe to cross the centre line then inexperienced riders wont do it?

No - but they might think twice before trying it.

Younger ones tend to think older/more experienced riders are gurus and know it all.

And think just because an older rider has survived bad judgements that they too will survive them.

[Subike]

I think that any new rider reading this thread would understand that the risks involved cutting corners have been well explained.
Any long term rider could also see from this thread that straight lining corners may not be a "safe" option, if they were to go by the reasonably high percentage of riders who have posted here that it is not "reasonably safe" to straightline corners.
Now the big trick is!
How do you get people not to ride in a way that is going to include "straight lining corners"
You can not stop a person making that choice!
But as most have done here, we can advise against it, give good reasons why it should not be done, give examples of what can result from doing it, even post pics or vids showing the aftermath of straight lining cornering.
In the end the result will be more information to those who bother to read the whole thread.
The best we can ever hope for is that somewhere on a New Zealand road, a rider from KB will remember reading this thread, and not cut a corner, thus by doing so, misses hitting that vehicle he did not see.
All of our opinions, for and against, have made for a good discuission that has kept this in our faces for this week at least.
Which is a good thing, that the start of the summer season, to be reminded to be carefull out there.
My opinion on the subject?
I love corners, so the white line I treat as a wall, even when I can see the way is clear.

[scumdog]

My opinion on the subject?
I love corners, so the white line I treat as a wall, even when I can see the way is clear.

Hell bro, ya said a mouthful there, spot-on!!

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

I love corners, so the white line I treat as a wall, even when I can see the way is clear.

Me to... my lane is my lane... and has walls on both sides... I don't need any more room

[Oscar]

So instead of a public forum where we can freely express our opinions we should keep quiet for fear of someone killing themselves because they took something said on this forum and misapplied it?

If we don't say there are situations where it is safe to cross the centre line then inexperienced riders wont do it?

By all means express your opinions, but bear in mind the consequences of offering it. I am expressing my opinion and at the risk of repeating myself - posting condensed versions of riding techniques completely out of context is fucking dangerous.

[motorbyclist]

ok, i'm not going to read all these posts, but i'm with katman on this one:

what if you come across someone cutting the corner? then you're relying on BOTH your reflexes when one (or both) of you are clearly incompent.

it's only worthwhile in an open environment, but then you can see the road ahead anyway so don't need to get more visibility.



and who cares that you can carry an extra bit of speed? you technically widened the corner to acheive it - why not just find a straigh fucking road and go flat tack down that if you're going to cut all the corners anyway? could just lean a bit more.

learn to corner.

[BMWST?]

the police will view the practise as failing to kep left...period
It is a valid technique..just as valid as making a corner as straight as possible on your side of the road,or positioning yourself to maximise your vision or your visiblility..obviously you do it only when visiblity is very good...there is NO chance of meeting another vehicle.