Bums - good or bad??

[bomma]

So im having an argument with this chick about bums (the homeless kind not the attached to the body kind). It's about a particular bum who hangs around uni but is also seen everywhere. he is more or less a midget and is obviously limited physically and mentally in what he can and cant do. IMHO, given the availability of so many various forms of social welfare, there shud be a very small population of bums in this country.....i really dont like them but having come from india, i know how much harsher life can be.....the bums here have it easy in comparison....this chick is arguing that it's not so easy to live with and is saying that it is easier to live on the street than to live getting free money from the govt and having to worry about paing rent, power, taxes, food etc (which is fucking stupid imo)

so i wanted to know what the general opinion of the bum was....

waddya reckon??

[2wheeljunkie]

i reckon if the bum is incapable of working and is unable to get money for the govt then i feel sorry for them but if they have the ability to work then i dunt c why they have to live the life they live..my 2c worth..

[Dargor]

Bums - good or bad??

um.. how could it be good? Of couse they should earn their keep, And do their keep off of park benches.

[Slyer]

If they are able to work they shouldn't get shit apart from help getting started with a job, cleaned up etc.
If they are unable to hold a real job for any physical or mental reason the government should be able to provide really easy/simple jobs for low pay but that they can do.

Help those that are genuinely in need, leave those who can't be arsed working.

[Gremlin]

So im having an argument with this chick about bums

*yum! walks into thread*

(the homeless kind not the attached to the body kind).

Fuck... *walks out of thread*

You're from India, you have an idea of what actual poverty is...

[rainman]

Help those that are genuinely in need, leave those who can't be arsed working.

Who will then do what....? Serious question. And how do you tell who's "genuine" or not?

My view is we should have as many people in productive work as possible, and we should be a society that looks after those among us that need help. But what to do with the rest is actually not an easy question to answer.

[Timati]

Why the hell would you be worried about bums (real hobos and not the ones that sit their arse at home all day with Sky) not working. Tired of paying taxes to the Govt for morons that clearly can work but choose not to. WTF!. I should have a choice as to where my money goes to. Stop the welfare system and get a damn job.

[CB ARGH]

I drop a ten cent coin as I walk past a bum. Good fun watching them run after it before somebody else does.

I tend to feel sorry for the bums, however they put themselves there, in most cases.

[nodrog:Me]

Rodney Rude summed it up best...

Fucken homeless fucks, fuck off to your bridge... look at you with your garbage bags for trousers, number plate for a hat, and sardine tin for a jandal... get another jandal! and look at your missus, using a muffin as a tampon.. fuckin homeless fucks, fuck off and sweep under your bridge.

"but i dont know where my next meal is coming from", "i dont fuckin know either, havent fuckin decided if i'm having KFC or fuckin Mcdonalds"

[Slyer]

Who will then do what....? Serious question. And how do you tell who's "genuine" or not?

My view is we should have as many people in productive work as possible, and we should be a society that looks after those among us that need help. But what to do with the rest is actually not an easy question to answer.

If they CBF working let them starve. No free handouts.
If they have children and still CBF working, shoot them.

I'm happy for my taxpayer money to help out people that need some help to start working, a bit of education, a place to sleep and somewhere to wash their clothes and shower etc This would not last forever though, 3 months max so that can get a job.

A maximum time for the dole sounds like a good idea really.

[HungusMaximist]

The way I look at it, it all depends on your definition of 'bums, because the meaning of the word 'bums' and 'homeless people' get mixed up regularly.

People would say bums and homeless people are the same thing, some would distinguish the two and say bums are literally what the word means, scum of the earth, a result of their own poor life choices, sit around and do nothing all day and drink booze from paper bags while harassing the public on Queen St.

While the latter, the homeless are people are still a direct result of some poor life choices but a lot of them end up going homeless for a variety of reasons, including your usual family/background/upbringing, violence, mental/psychological, and funny enough, you'll be surprised some do it just to get away from living the conventional life.

What I am trying to get is theres usual more than meets the eye, mental and psychological problems is one of the major factors for bums and homelessness and it isn't something that can be fixed by giving meds and support/counselling. The way you look at it is like telling somebody to convert to another religion or going go turkey if you're drug addict. Most will revert back to their old habits and behaviour because it's been hardwired into their brains after years of the same routine.

Like you mentioned, knowing the quality social welfare that's available in NZ how is it possible for people to be bums? Well you got to look at the bigger picture, by just having social welfare doesn't mean you're going to solve people's problems. What about if people are genuinely embarrassed to seek welfare and will rather endure living the streets? Some people even despise the government and some may not even understand the need to help themselves.

The other thing is with your comparison with India, I don't believe it's fair representation given the huge difference between the two countries. However I will say this, it's important to remind of ourselves of the luxuries that we do have compared to other nations and that we should make most of what we have.

Like I mentioned before a lot of bumming around and homelessness is due to mental and psychological factors, if mending your mental state is as easy as mending a broken bone then things would be far better off.

[Slyer]

So they can't be changed because its hardwired into them now?
I think the real change that needs to be made is to stop this happening in the first place.

[Sidewinder]

just shoot the lazy fucks!!!

well better than them taking our tax money like zeroindex

[rainman]

If they CBF working let them starve. No free handouts.
If they have children and still CBF working, shoot them.

I call bullshit. Betcha that despite all the tough talk, if you had to do the shooting you wouldn't have the scrote. (Well, actually I hope that is true, if you really are as nasty as you're making out, maybe we should remove you from society). I've seen poverty up close and personal and it ain't pretty. Or simple to fix.

How do you tell if they CBF? Who makes the call? Maybe they're unemployable within 3 months (getting a job is a transaction like any other, there has to be a buyer and a seller), maybe they have some mental health issues, maybe there's no work where they live.... maybe a ton of other things. Then what?

A maximum time for the dole sounds like a good idea really.

Yeah, it does sound like a good idea. But it's pretty hard to implement without getting other things we don't want, like more crime and violence.

I'd be interested to hear what you'd do to really fix the problem of poverty (not just shoot the current victims, who'd only be replaced in time by others).

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

so i wanted to know what the general opinion of the bum was....

depends what you call a bum... hobo, someone in need of help or someone that just CBF... alot of so called bums & homless may have a mental illness (in Dunedin there alot since they closed cherry farm)... they could seem fine but you don't seem the all the time and don't know there story (there are a few that don't they should be working and erning a living but again you don't know there story) don't judge a book by its cover either untill you have read the story...