Incompetence by NZ police re: death of officer.

[Rcktfsh]

WHAT! You mean that everything in the paper or the TV isn't true? No way....

Phew...lucky we got the internet as a reliable source of totally true info .

[imdying]

Be aware Skiddy the media (unbelievably) will print (a) whatever sellls their rag and (b) whatever half-truths and outright fabrications they can get away with.

And the public devour it like it's the truth.

It's hard to swallow a statement like that... but every single time I read about something that I have inside knowledge on, that statement is proven to be fact. At first I thought it was just crap journalism, but 'every time a coconut' points more towards it being dressed up to sell papers.

Not sure if it has always been this way? Did the popularity of the Internet turn the media this way, or has it always been like this?

Are their any factual papers? Or is that merely a matter of perspective anyway?

[skidMark]

Be aware Skiddy the media (unbelievably) will print (a) whatever sellls their rag and (b) whatever half-truths and outright fabrications they can get away with.

And the public devour it like it's the truth.

But ya knew that eh?

Yes i bloodey know that but its all i have to go with! I've been saaying that the entire way through this thread.

And then police officers like yourself and patrick try shut me down and rip me a new hole over me not knowing the facts.

Yes will not tell me "the truth"

So for the 4th time.

Do not use information i do not have access to, as a rebuttle against me.

Comprende?

[Ocean1]

Did the popularity of the Internet turn the media this way, or has it always been like this?

Since the press evolved from a simple local broadsheet to multiple, competing comercial enterprises.

Add to that a more recent trend for journalistic academic programs to be… somewhat politically tainted.

[rodimus]

I think the cops need to take a hit on the chin for this one.

Police TSU comprise staff members that are from a purely technical background. These "technicians" are given a rank to mould them into the Police structure. They do not undergo the training that the real frontline officers undergo.

Therefore, these "Technicians" need to be protected and adequately informed by the NZ Police of the real risks to their personal safety.

In this case, The NZ Police have seriously miscalculated the threat level present.

A low risk operation is not an operation where you will be killed if you are seen.

I'd say there would be a particular department of the NZ Police that needs a good boot up the backside for providing misinformed information resulting in death.

One can argue that Don should have had a vest on, but a vest may only be required where the threat level is significant and according to the Police, it was not, Hence Don's chance of survival was less likely.

[imdying]

Not sure that's fair? According to the write up in the paper this guy was a right 'ard coont that was quite suited to this sort of work. He just should've been given the right tool to drop one of these P smokin dickheads if required is all. I imagine covert ops an infiltrating drug operations isn't all rainbow and lollipops, you can't expect the intel on a job like that to be 100% all the time.

[rodimus]

Not sure that's fair? According to the write up in the paper this guy was a right 'ard coont that was quite suited to this sort of work. He just should've been given the right tool to drop one of these P smokin dickheads if required is all. I imagine covert ops an infiltrating drug operations isn't all rainbow and lollipops, you can't expect the intel on a job like that to be 100% all the time.

It doesn't need to be %100 right, It just shouldn't be %100 wrong.
'ard coont? That didn't make much difference to the bullets.
Like I said, these guys are "Technicians". They aren't trained for the handling of guns (at present). Hence the backup team that was sitting round the corner eating their donuts.

[imdying]

It doesn't need to be %100 right, It just shouldn't be %100 wrong.

Which it wasn't...

'ard coont? That didn't make much difference to the bullets.
Like I said, these guys are "Technicians". They aren't trained for the handling of guns (at present). Hence the backup team that was sitting round the corner eating their donuts.

Given the amount of time he spent in the Secret Service, he probably knew more about handling weapons than you appear to know about this topic.

[Dare]

I'm getting fed up of the crock of shit emotive reporting we are getting fed by the media, and it's steadily getting worse.

How many times last night I heard the operation referred to as a botch up. For chrissake these are experienced people making judgement calls, including the officer that was killed.

We only hear what the media want us to hear, and opinion is too quickly reported as fact.

I could not believe the way this story was reported on TV1 last night.

I couldn't agree more, the way PC and selective reporting has gone i'm surprised we are getting any meaningful news at all! Actually...

From the perspective of risk, it seems to me that protocol probably meant that such an operation was deemed a lower risk than it turned out to be. Therefore it was at a guess being run in quite an economical 'we've done this hundreds of times' kind of way. The force does not appear to be run in a 'throw everything we've got at one problem at a time' way (aka using a sledgehammer to crack a wallnut). Never the less, it was foolish to approach a drug house with no protection other than a stab vest. Perhaps the backup should have been somewhat closer than a block away, around the corner would have been more appropriate it seems.

All conjecture anyhow, given how many accounts of this event there are going to be I dont think there is much more to say with any degree of accuracy other than people in risk of getting shot without warning should be armed or at least protected with more than a stab proof vest. Kevlar would work without giving the game away. Although by the sounds of this there was no reason previously to believe that the set up was as dangerous as it was. Unlucky combined with backup that was not prepared or set up to react in an emergency.

[rodimus]

Which it wasn't...
Given the amount of time he spent in the Secret Service, he probably knew more about handling weapons than you appear to know about this topic.

LOL.....

In New Zealand, if one mentions the Secret Service, they are infact referring to the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service. The term "Secret Service" is a confusion between the British terminology for MI6 and the NZ terminology. Don has never worked for the NZSIS. Don worked for the other NZ clandestine agency - As an electronics technician.

Considering that I hold a NZ firearms licence and have a military background, which Don did not have. I'm not sure that you are on the money here either.

[scumdog]

A low risk operation is not an operation where you will be killed if you are seen.

Sorta like crossing the road, going for a swim, riding a motorbike 'low risk operation' - even if being seen is not a worry??

[rodimus]

Sorta like crossing the road, going for a swim, riding a motorbike 'low risk operation' - even if being seen is not a worry??

I'd risk crossing a road anyday. I'll happily do that.

I wouldn't ever want to mess with a drug suppliers car though.

Then take into consideration the statistical likelihood of surviving the two events unharmed.

In my opinion, there are completely different risk levels here. How could they both qualify as the same risk definition - low risk?

[scumdog]

I'd risk crossing a road anyday. I'll happily do that.

I wouldn't ever want to mess with a drug suppliers car though.

Then take into consideration the statistical likelihood of surviving the two events unharmed.

In my opinion, there are completely different risk levels here. How could they both qualify as the same risk definition - low risk?

Funny, I feel more at risk crossing the road, more idiots to contend with and they don't even intend me any harm...

The druggies? I'm more prepared for THEM.

[rodimus]

Funny, I feel more at risk crossing the road, more idiots to contend with and they don't even intend me any harm...

The druggies? I'm more prepared for THEM.

So you'd happily mess with 4-10 drug dealers cars every day rather than cross as many streets in a day. Because you are more Prepared. Well done!

[rodimus]

Funny how New Zealand has so many stupid people that can think such stupid things. Precisely why this Labour Government is still in power. Because we have an uneducated society. This "Riviera of the South" guy must be one of those communist supporters.

Having now shotdown both "Imdying" and "Scumdog", I'm happily awaiting the labour coloured rep......