Keep it this way

**ResidentAngel** · 25th January 2005, 22:44

Originally Posted by alarumba

Out of all the popular flag designs, why did the koru have to be one of them? Are we all Moari? If we want to be fair, we would put the union jack on it, stars and stripes, rising sun, china's emblem, a Kangaroo, etc etc.

Koru? FTS

this one could keep the traditionalists as well as Maori happy!
http://www.mch.govt.nz/nzflag/histor...nz-ensigna.jpg

**Jamezo** · 26th January 2005, 00:21

I suppose I should weigh in; I am of the opinion that the costs of changing our flag would outweigh the benefits. I'm too tired to go further...

have fun!

**inlinefour** · 26th January 2005, 00:34

Originally Posted by SpankMe

Our flag is our heritage

What exactly is wrong with it anyway?

**scumdog** · 26th January 2005, 00:41

Originally Posted by Hitcher

Fuck I hate it when you've just spent 10 minutes drafting something erudite and witty, inadvertently hit some key sequence to watch it all evaporate into cyberspace.

Herewith the short version:

The old flag is a load of toss. It screams "colonial outpost". It looks the same as the Aussie flag (oh yes it does) and every banana republic from Guyana to Graceland.

Unfortunately the alternatives (so far) look no better. The last thing we need is a flag designed by a committee (otherwise it will get printed in natural, politically correct earth tones on hand-woven GE-free organic hemp by unionised labour...).

The Canadians were brave enough to ditch theirs in favour of a real stunner that clearly identifies their country. Let's do something similar.

Let's get rid of that old shite sheet!

Most on this site have no idea what a 'colonial outpost' is!

Probably think it's a misspelling of 'Cromandel outhouse' or sommat...

**Big Dave** · 26th January 2005, 02:32

Originally Posted by ResidentAngel

this one could keep the traditionalists as well as Maori happy!
http://www.mch.govt.nz/nzflag/histor...nz-ensigna.jpg

I shouldn't comment - I have a Southern Cross with 5 stars tattooed prominently on my left shoulder and the 'Eureka' flag (Which should be Australia's flag and is the icon of independent aussie bikers) tattooed largely on my right.

However, I hope you'll indulge me as an 'impartial' - I take your point, but the one you suggested is an ugly design - the crosses argue with each other and it's unbalanced - it offends my designer's eye somewhat. Not nearly as badly as the 'Stylised Fern' - That says 'Oh look - let's use Canada's idea' to me.

chz
bd
And yes I am very happy to be in this country - and i'm sorry about the possums, the white tailed spiders and Greg Chapple. Can I stay?

**James Deuce** · 26th January 2005, 06:24

Originally Posted by Jim2

Why does everyone think that:

A. Changing the flag will matter a bit.
B. That a Republican Democracy is the ONLY alternative to a Constitutional Monarchy/Westminster Parliamentarian system?

About as much thought has gone into both those points in NZ as went into pushing MMP as the ONLY suitable proportional voting system.

I'm genuinely interested.

Bear in mind when you think about these, that no one cares whether or not NZ exists or vanishes tomorrow. We mean nothing to 99% of the world, so we should make these decisions based on local benefit only.

I still don't think that anyone has even come anywhere near to answering the questions I posed above, which gives me more to concerned about than the large numbers of Aussies now living in NZ that have appeared in this thread. (Large numbers is more than one).

Once again, these are serious issues requiring serious thought. Not a cheap campaign to chuck a referendum up at the next election that most people will tick "Yes, change it" only to regret ever agreeing ot the referendum when the resulting flag design turns out to be something quite different to the ones proposed by the referendum.

**Motu** · 26th January 2005, 06:50

I'm in two minds on this whole thing - as Jim says,the rest of the world cares squat about our flag,same as we do about theirs....out of all the flags in the world we will pick out ours,next door,England,United States,if you ride a Jap bike,the Japanese flag,if you ride an Italian bike the Italian flag ,etc...countries of no importance,like us,are nowhere on peoples flag radar.I'm happy with our flag,but it does rub our colonial beginings in a little deep...not that I mind a colonial heritage,I'm proud of it...but we have grown up.

We have all accepted our national colour as black,we call ourselves Kiwis,we like our bird,and we take the silver fern as our emblem.But I don't think we can come up with such a stunningly simple and direct flag as Canada,at least not with the current over abundance of graphic designers that have been churned out of our universities or where ever they have sprung from.Whatever flag they produce will be over designed,it will be dated the minute it is produced.We need something a kid can draw.

**FROSTY:Me** · 26th January 2005, 06:51

Maybee im a simplist--or just plain stupid
Why not a variation on the existing flag.
I agree with both points of view -we do need to be different from auzzie but the offers Ive seen are -well ugly.
I was thinking a Koru or a silver fern behind the southern cross on our flag.

**Lou Girardin** · 26th January 2005, 07:27

Bugger being a republic. We have all the bad points of Australia and none of the good. We should bite the bullet and beg to become a state. Then we only have to add one star to the flag and could use that red and black worm-like banner as a state flag. We'll get a new Premier who doesn't look like an add for 'Molvania,the Land Dentistry Forgot'. The weather will probably improve too.
(Now, where's that Nomex tent?)

**Slim** · 26th January 2005, 07:47

I like this one:

We see it flying everywhere already, some of our Olympian athletes have it tatooed on shoulders or ankles or hips.

I'm not up to joining the debate properly at this stage, but I might think about it when I'm feeling a bit more awake.

**Biff** · 26th January 2005, 07:53

Originally Posted by Jim2

I still don't think that anyone has even come anywhere near to answering the questions I posed above.
.

I could answer those for you Jim, but as a pom who has yet to gain residency I don't believe that a) I have the right to answer them b) It would do my residency application and favours (the keyboards have ears ya know)

**vifferman** · 26th January 2005, 08:20

Crikey (CRIKEY!) - what a {mixed metaphor} this whole topic is.

My point of view?

(about my view or this issue).
It's a piece of fabric with stuff on it, for goodness sake!
And to whoever said we're not patriotic enough: isn't patriotism just another blight on world peace, like separatism, colonialism, racism, sexism, and ismism?
Jism? Jismismism? Weren't flags originally symbols to wave around when waging war on furriners? Blah blah blah

Yes, I'm a New Zealander, a Kiwi if you like (although in many countires now, since Murka dropped 'fruit' from 'kiwifruit', a kiwi is a kiwifruit). Blah blah blah. I identify with NZ, wouldn't want to live anywhere else, but I don't give a rat's ass (that's for you Hitcher) or an ass's rat, or any other anatomical/zoological absurdity about what our flag looks like, or even whether we have one. And like Jim#2 said, it won't matter if we change it or not. Blah blah.

But (BUT!) if I had to choose, I'd choose the one the Wise Woman's already pointed out the benefits of.

And I agree with what Motu said:
"Whatever flag they [the overabundance of graphic designers] produce will be over designed,it will be dated the minute it is produced.We need something a kid can draw."
That silver fern on a black background fits the bill: it's already recognised, most NZers can identify with it, no graphic designer's going to charge a bazillion dollars for coming up with something clever and forgettable, and no-one can claim credit for it.

Apart from Nike, or Canterbury, or some big corporate clothing company

that has probably already copyrighted it.

**James Deuce** · 26th January 2005, 08:21

Originally Posted by Biff Baff

I could answer those for you Jim, but as a pom who has yet to gain residency I don't believe that a) I have the right to answer them b) It would do my residency application and favours (the keyboards have ears ya know)

Yeah, but this isn't the US - Debate away!

**jrandom** · 26th January 2005, 08:31

Originally Posted by Motu

... We need something a kid can draw.

Funny you should say that, I've been thinking precisely the same from the top of the thread.

I remember drawing the Union Jack and the four stars in primary school. I took such pride in getting the lines straight and meeting up in the right place... every time some wack-ass (

) design with korus or wibbly-wobbly bits or even a fern is proposed I can't help thinking how the primary schools will have to give up getting the kids to draw flags.

Ah, well. All the proper countries have taken the good designs already.

But has anyone actually thought about what would be *appropriate* as a replacement design, rather than what would look good?

I'd go for a rising sun and a coconut, large and proud over an upside-down Union Jack...