Nats' tax policy released

[Quasievil]

I empathise with your thought train Quasi, I agree with a hell of a lot of what Act say but will give 2 ticks to National out of sheer pragmatism. Better a National Govt, hopefully with an Act coalition.

Maybe, but if we all do that then the coalition will be dire, Im voting ACT, the two main parties are both scare mongerers with the same shit different wrapping, NZ needs major Gutsy solutions, not the same power over the people scenarios
Vote for freedom vote for ACT


BWAAAHHH

[Robert Taylor]

Maybe, but if we all do that then the coalition will be dire, Im voting ACT, the two main parties are both scare mongerers with the same shit different wrapping, NZ needs major Gutsy solutions, not the same power over the people scenarios
Vote for freedom vote for ACT


BWAAAHHH

My gut feeling is yes I totally agree with you, we need a radical shake up. But the socialists have bit by bit by bit actually won, they have institutionalised the expectant mentality and in turn engineered dependence on the state. Armed insurrection may be the only answer, in the end event.

[oldrider]

If only that traitor Lange hadn't lasted long enough to stuff Roger Douglas up, he might have finished the job last time and put the country back on it's feet forever.

I don't necessarily agree with Roger entirely but I would liked to have seen him finish the job.

I rember him saying there would be "pain before the gain" but Lange dropped his guts at the peak of the pain so the pain went on forever.

Lange shat on his family, shat on his party, shat on New Zealand, got pissed, shagged his secretary and then shat on Roger Douglas, big time!

Douglas's (gain) flat tax never got off the ground and the pain went on and on, thanks to that traitor Lange.

Even so, Roger gave New Zealand and subsequent National and Labour parties the best economic years we have had and now they have stuffed that up too!

Labour and National are the two worst options that New Zealand voters have got, followed by the Greens, Winston First, Anderton forever, Dunn nothing and all the other left wing loosers on offer including the precious Maori party.

What a mottly lot to pick from.

I do like the fact that the Maori party is making the Maori stand up and be counted and do their share of running the country and taking some responsibility for a change insted of just limping along with that blood sucking Labour party.

So far it's two votes for ACT but I am still listening and thinking. Cheers John.

[Salival]

I'm not knocking capitalism - I've done pretty well out of it - but at some point, the capitalist financial system as it works today will fall on its ass. Why? Because the entire economy is driven by the concept of growth which is, in actual fact, exponential. It's physically impossible to have exponential growth but only finite resources.

It's all a big bubble that must burst, sooner or later.

Money is debt, and when there's no more debt, there's no more money.

[davereid]

I empathise with your thought train Quasi, I agree with a hell of a lot of what Act say but will give 2 ticks to National out of sheer pragmatism. Better a National Govt, hopefully with an Act coalition.

I have always voted like this - taken the best option to get rid of something I hate, even if it means voting for something I hate less.

But this year, I will be true to my own heart.

I'm going to vote for something I support, rather than just to ensure change.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

So far it's two votes for ACT but I am still listening and thinking. Cheers John.

but that may change to the serious mcgillian party...

[davereid]

..but at some point, the capitalist financial system as it works today will fall on its ass. Why? Because the entire economy is driven by the concept of growth which is, in actual fact, exponential. It's physically impossible to have exponential growth but only finite resources.

It's all a big bubble that must burst, sooner or later.

Money is debt, and when there's no more debt, there's no more money.

Our current money system may be err fragile. But Capitalisim isn't.

From caveman times, people have exchanged goods and services. The hunter swapping meat for sex, the miner swapping copper and gold for grain.

Early money systems relied on the value of a rare comodity - for example, your coin was made of gold. It was the value of the gold that allowed the money to used for exchange.

Had a massive mine arrived, full of gold, the money system would have failed.

Later, money systems merely represented the gold, or some other commodity of value to the community.

In our money system, the value of your money is determined by what exactly ?

The answer is nothing... except it's ability to meet your obligations to the government - ie TAX.

Money systems like this exist regardless of the type of trade, or government in power. Communist, Socialist, Capitalist, it doesn't matter, the money system is the same.

The US economy is in trouble, because the US Federal reserve found that gold mine.

Everytime the US economy started looking like slowing down, the Federal Reserve "printed" some more money.

The problem is really a political one, naturally it first showed up in financial markets, but it was not caused by Capitalisim.

[oldrider]

Our current money system may be err fragile. But Capitalisim isn't.

From caveman times, people have exchanged goods and services. The hunter swapping meat for sex, the miner swapping copper and gold for grain.

Early money systems relied on the value of a rare comodity - for example, your coin was made of gold. It was the value of the gold that allowed the money to used for exchange.

Had a massive mine arrived, full of gold, the money system would have failed.

Later, money systems merely represented the gold, or some other commodity of value to the community.

In our money system, the value of your money is determined by what exactly ?

The answer is nothing... except it's ability to meet your obligations to the government - ie TAX.

Money systems like this exist regardless of the type of trade, or government in power. Communist, Socialist, Capitalist, it doesn't matter, the money system is the same.

The US economy is in trouble, because the US Federal reserve found that gold mine.

Everytime the US economy started looking like slowing down, the Federal Reserve "printed" some more money.

The problem is really a political one, naturally it first showed up in financial markets, but it was not caused by Capitalisim.

This is not "new".

"Social debt" money systems (by their very nature) produce war, booms and busts as part of their natural cycle.

"Social credit" was introduced as an alternative to "Social debt".

Under NZ's first past the post electoral system the Social Credit party actually achieved 23% of the vote but only got 2 seats in parliament!

New Zealand was screwed by first past the post, Bruce Beatham died and Social Credit was gobbled up by the "Socialist" Democrat party, which faided into Robson and Anderton (I think) and thats where the "Kiwi Bank" idea sprung from!

It amazed me because Anderton was one of the most fiercly opposed to Bruce Beatham, when he was still with Labour!

Socialists will sell their soul's for power!

The only thing "social" about Social Credit, was it's monetary reform policy, all of the rest was more about "private enterprise" and individual "freedom".

Our present situation might have been much more easily managed or may not have even happened, had Social Credit won the treasury benches with their 23% under MMP.

Bob Jones "popular" New Zealand party cancelled out the threat from Social Credit and I believe "that" is why he was knighted to Sir Robert!

The claim that he destroyed Robert Muldoon was bullshit, Sir Robert Muldoon destroyed himself and (almost) New Zealand. John.

[alanzs]

Gave them the opportunity but it was the valuation of assets that really led to the crisis.
Having to value stuff at what amounted to fire sale values was the problem. It became cyclical and self perpetuating.

You are correct. Clinton loosened the availability of creditors to lend. They chose risky people to lend to. The Bush administration has pushed deregulating the finance industry for the past eight years. Now, the chicken has come to roost, so to speak.

When getting a refinance for a mortgage, the money was lent on the basis of "the market has been going up X percentage in the last X years" so you'd get an assessed value of that amount, not what the house next door sold for last week. No assessor came to look at your house, it was all a paperwork shuffle. As it turns out, I had mortgages with WAMU (sold quickly to Freddie Mac), which just was declared insolvent by the FDIC and taken over by JP Morgan. They were huge proponents of sub-prime mortgages.

I had a house which sold for double the price I bought it at three years earlier. We only sold because we moved back here. I was very lucky, but I haven't always been. I had a house I bought in the late '80's which sold for exactly the same price ten years later. Shit happens.