True Production Racing series

[sidecar bob]

Robert T, A little off topic, im interested to know the meaning of "maxed inwards" in your earlier post.

[jrandom]

Robert T, A little off topic, im interested to know the meaning of "maxed inwards" in your earlier post.

Come check out my GSX1400 sometime and you'll probably see what he's talking about.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Plus one could argue you are less likely to crash and therefore save money on repair bills

Sorry mate...that's utter bullshit! We've seen with the move from 1000cc GP bikes to 800cc's that going 'round corners faster = bigger and NASTIER crashes! So going round corners on bikes with 'Ohlins' faster than you can with stock suspenders = the same thing! WORK it out!!??

They just made me a little faster, didn't crash for a whole season and loved the extra feel and sensation that I received from them.
I feel racing is a true test of man and machine, at the limit of both's ability. I don't think it is something that should be compromised much. But, race bikes are stressed and pushed in exteme ways and race bikes should be well set up, otherwise you are a danger to yourself and others. We are not talking social cricket here, we are talking MOTORCYCLE RACING. Sticky tyres, sorted and good quality suspension and good brakes (pads, lines, etc) should not be an option they should be a compulsory requirement. If you can't afford that then sorry, do the occasional track day but don't try racing at a regular and frequent level until you can.

Sorry AGAIN! Crap. If you didn't crash for a whole season...it's because you were riding at a speed you were comfortable with, and you were unwilling to go beyond that speed to find the true limit of how fast your 'Ohlins' suspended bike could go.

Racing is indeed a true test of man and machine...that's why a true 'man' will rise above the rest even on stock equipment. Don't you find it 'odd' that THE most successful road racers ever to come out NZ raced 'Proddie' bikes? Graeme Crosby, the Hiscock Bros, Robert Holden, Aaron Slight, Simon Crafar and Bruce Ainstey (not to mention the legends that were well before those guys that didn't have flash suspension)?

Were they a danger to themselves and others when the raced 'proddie' bikes? I think not. Get real. Social cricket? Sounds like you're riding 'scocially' on your 'Ohlins' equipped bike if you've never binned it.

Modern sports bikes are as safe as they come to road race. They have good brakes...good suspension, and need nothing more than balls and skill to ride faster than the next cunt.

Production racing is the bees knees.

I'm with you there...'Proddie racing' is, and always has been the bees kness!

Someone needs to tell Agostini that he shouldn't have been out there!

Yeah mate...he shouldn't have been out there on those crappy old style tyres and brakes...he was obviously a danger to himself and everybody else!

The reality very often is that with the standard suspenders they are very often maxed inwards ( that in itself creating lots of undesirable hysterisis ) and the rider learns very little if anything about suspension setup.


I am not against entry level classes ( quite the opposite ) but excellence in machine specification and setup is not something that should be condemned, as a few have done in this and other threads.

I'm sure you're only too aware that modern sports bikes have suspension that is VERY adjustable Robert. Yes we know that said adjustment is not as accurate and infinately adjustable as the Ohlins you continue to peddle is...but to say the 'Rider' learns "Very little if anything" is once again...BULLSHIT.

Racers of 'Production' bikes can learn this...
1:The difference tyre pressure makes
2:The difference spring (front and rear) preload makes.
3:The difference compression and rebound damping makes (both front and rear, and now often high and low speed as well)
4:The difference where the rear axle is placed in the swingarm.
5:The difference where the forks are in the triple clamps makes.
6:The difference a few extra litres of fuel makes.
7:The difference it makes when you sit differently on the bike.
8:The HUGE difference mental attitude can make.
9:....and my favorite one...the difference it makes when you're not beaten because you can't afford to spend the money some cunt that's slower than you can. THAT is the joy of 'Proddie' racing people!

Anyone that knocks proddie racing probably got their arse kicked trying to do so.

And for the record...I've won proddie races and races where I could do whatever the fuck I liked to the bike...but the Proddie races I've won were by far the sweetest!

As you were.

[Robert Taylor]

Dude the biggest problem with the world at the moment is there's too many idiots who refuse to accept that they aren't rich. Now we are heading into a depression more than ever we are going to need to live within our means. In a country with limited money and limited productive economy there is only room for a small percentage of the population to be wealthy. The rest have to survive on what they can get. You have a niche business and good for you. I don't, and many young racers are pretty much kids on minimum wage. You can't earn good money until you are at least mid 20's by then it's too late for a motorcycle racing career. Keep costs down, or we will have a dearth of international motorcycle racers despite the talent in this country.

In my opinion fair racing doesn't need thousands to be blown on aftermarket suspension. Racing should be about the best rider triumphing, not the fattest chequebook.

There is definitely room for 1 or 2 modified road/race class in NZ. And learning to work with modifications is important once it gets really serious. But much more of the racing needs to be kept controlled to help identify talent, and keep costs down. If this doesn't happen, you will see the sport slide into a decline in the next few recessionary/depressionary years.

I've seen some serious quality riders come and go from the sport because of the costs, Ross King, Chris Sucich, and I'm sure others could name plenty more and I would like to include myself in that list hahaha, although cost was only one of the top 3 reasons why I packed it in.

And everyone keeps missing the point, we have controlled lower cost classes....

[Robert Taylor]

Define 'entry level', though. There's Clubmans, of course, but that's not a racing class per se.

If I want to go racing against other guys on the same spec machine with equipment that isn't old and fucked, what classes are available to me? Pro Twins/F3 (basically the same class now), superbikes, and 600s.

Anyone care to comment on what any of the above would be likely to cost me? I do know that more than one racing acquaintance who rides in F1 and/or F2 (and tries to win, etc) has quoted the cost of a full season incorporating the winter series and the Nats at over $30K.

And that's just silly. Why can't I walk into a dealership, buy a bike off the floor, and go racing competitively against others on the same equipment without spending money on anything but tyres and fuel?



Quoted for truth!

Whilst this answer is a slight oversimplification...............because they are made as road bikes, not true race bikes. If they were made as race bikes then they wouldnt need all the mods that are done the world over. And quality aftermarket suspension manufacturers wouldnt exist, wouldnt need to exist. The fact they do and do a roaring trade speaks volumes in itself

[Robert Taylor]

Robert T, A little off topic, im interested to know the meaning of "maxed inwards" in your earlier post.

Clickers fully inwards, at max damping AND still deficient in damping for proper / ideal machine control

[R6_kid:Me]

Why can't I walk into a dealership, buy a bike off the floor, and go racing competitively against others on the same equipment without spending money on anything but tyres and fuel?

They're called HRC kit bikes, and you have to ask nicely for one at your local honda stealership. I believe they do a CBR600RR and a CBR1000RR 'factory race bike' - cant ever be road registered

Otherwise you can move to Australia, go to your local Yamaha Dealership, show them that you are signed up and paid up for the Yamaha FZ6 cup, hand over $12k, and have a race prepped (ohlins suspension + full exhaust etc) FZ6 delivered to you're house. And at the end of the year, you can sell it as a road bike with all the road gear as well.

[Robert Taylor]

Sorry mate...that's utter bullshit! We've seen with the move from 1000cc GP bikes to 800cc's that going 'round corners faster = bigger and NASTIER crashes! So going round corners on bikes with 'Ohlins' faster than you can with stock suspenders = the same thing! WORK it out!!??



Sorry AGAIN! Crap. If you didn't crash for a whole season...it's because you were riding at a speed you were comfortable with, and you were unwilling to go beyond that speed to find the true limit of how fast your 'Ohlins' suspended bike could go.

Racing is indeed a true test of man and machine...that's why a true 'man' will rise above the rest even on stock equipment. Don't you find it 'odd' that THE most successful road racers ever to come out NZ raced 'Proddie' bikes? Graeme Crosby, the Hiscock Bros, Robert Holden, Aaron Slight, Simon Crafar and Bruce Ainstey (not to mention the legends that were well before those guys that didn't have flash suspension)?

Were they a danger to themselves and others when the raced 'proddie' bikes? I think not. Get real. Social cricket? Sounds like you're riding 'scocially' on your 'Ohlins' equipped bike if you've never binned it.

Modern sports bikes are as safe as they come to road race. They have good brakes...good suspension, and need nothing more than balls and skill to ride faster than the next cunt.



I'm with you there...'Proddie racing' is, and always has been the bees kness!



Yeah mate...he shouldn't have been out there on those crappy old style tyres and brakes...he was obviously a danger to himself and everybody else!



I'm sure you're only too aware that modern sports bikes have suspension that is VERY adjustable Robert. Yes we know that said adjustment is not as accurate and infinately adjustable as the Ohlins you continue to peddle is...but to say the 'Rider' learns "Very little if anything" is once again...BULLSHIT.

Racers of 'Production' bikes can learn this...
1:The difference tyre pressure makes
2:The difference spring (front and rear) preload makes.
3:The difference compression and rebound damping makes (both front and rear, and now often high and low speed as well)
4:The difference where the rear axle is placed in the swingarm.
5:The difference where the forks are in the triple clamps makes.
6:The difference a few extra litres of fuel makes.
7:The difference it makes when you sit differently on the bike.
8:The HUGE difference mental attitude can make.
9:....and my favorite one...the difference it makes when you're not beaten because you can't afford to spend the money some cunt that's slower than you can. THAT is the joy of 'Proddie' racing people!

Anyone that knocks proddie racing probably got their arse kicked trying to do so.

And for the record...I've won proddie races and races where I could do whatever the fuck I liked to the bike...but the Proddie races I've won were by far the sweetest!

As you were.

Well the expletives were a little uncalled for. Unless Ive been dreaming for the last 10 years or so it seems odd that I recieve week upon week oem ''fully adjustable fork units'' that are anything but and are often maxed inwards. They are modified to work a lot better and with a better response range. Id best contact Paul Thede and Kenth Ohlin and tell him theres some bloke in Wellington thats offended they have a presence in the NZ market. Heck, Ohlins is over-exposed in the market ( a victim of good old Kiwi tall poppy syndrome ) Perhaps we shoUld say that about Suzuki as well. Yep, ridiculous over-emotional codswallop laced with expletives. SAD.
And singling Ohlins out, thats a bit uncalled for when there are a couple of other quality brands out there. You miss the point, sure you can crash at a higher speed but usually there is such a better perception of feel and when you are closer to the limit that crashing becomes a smaller likelihood.
if you have beaten people that are less skilled than you who have had the means to buy good gear then good on you. But just imagine how much further ahead of you they would have been had their riding skill been the same.
Anyway this is off topic. This is not about tall poppy syndrome, its about asking Shaun when his proposal is happening

[jrandom]

The fact they do and do a roaring trade speaks volumes in itself

They do a roaring trade because as soon as you allow that shit in the rules, one guy gets it and goes a bit faster because of it, and then every other guy has to have it to stay competitive. No other reason.

But riding stock bikes around racetracks is still shitloads of fun. It's ridiculous to state that you 'need' mods to race.

For that to happen, though, someone has to have the balls and the foresight to say "right, this here is a race meet where modified bikes aren't allowed".

All us poor cunts who just want to have a bit of fun on a racetrack can do is have a moan and hope that it gets heard by those in a position to do just that, so that we can vote with our feet and turn up on the starting grid.

[jrandom]

They're called HRC kit bikes, and you have to ask nicely for one at your local honda stealership. I believe they do a CBR600RR and a CBR1000RR 'factory race bike' - cant ever be road registered

I bet they're a tad pricier than the road versions though!

Otherwise you can move to Australia, go to your local Yamaha Dealership, show them that you are signed up and paid up for the Yamaha FZ6 cup, hand over $12k, and have a race prepped (ohlins suspension + full exhaust etc) FZ6 delivered to you're house.

Way hey hey!

And good on Yamaha for making that happen. A bit of that action over here would be just ducky.

[Crasherfromwayback]

And everyone keeps missing the point, we have controlled lower cost classes....

Like what class Robert? 150 Street Stock? On bikes that are no longer produced? 125GP? On bikes that once again need 'A' or 'B' kits fitted to win?

F3...where money wins?

Whilst this answer is a slight oversimplification...............because they are made as road bikes, not true race bikes. If they were made as race bikes then they wouldnt need all the mods that are done the world over. And quality aftermarket suspension manufacturers wouldnt exist, wouldnt need to exist. The fact they do and do a roaring trade speaks volumes in itself

GSXR's, CBR's, ZX's and YZF's are now basically race bikes with road gear Robert. A good punter (Mladin etc) on a new GSXR1000 (stock) would give Eddie Lawson a go on his old NSR. Fact.

There will always be an after market scene (so don't worry yourself to sleep), but that's not to say that 'production racing' ain't where it's at.

This thread is (and I know it's been said before...by me and many others Robert) all about PRODUCTION RACING.

Find yourself the 'Aftermarket suspension rules' thread and post till your merry heart's content in that.

Sean is trying to do a good thing for NZ road racing with this...don't matter if it happens or not.

Remember this though...how come now we have no true 'proddie racing' class we've not of late 'produced' any world class racers?

[gav]

Anyone that knocks proddie racing probably got their arse kicked trying to do so.

And for the record...I've won proddie races and races where I could do whatever the fuck I liked to the bike...but the Proddie races I've won were by far the sweetest!

As you were.

A mate of mine bought a Mk3 RG250 that was an ex Proddie race bike from a dealer that had supported the 250 proddy series. It had some "interesting" modifications or "interpretation" of the rules, so not to sure on the even playing field bit.
Certainly a series as proposed by Shaun would have to be the best bet to try and have a standard class.

[Cleve]

Isn't it about time Shaun told us what he has now that we have tried so hard to keep this thread going...

[gav]

Like what class Robert? 150 Street Stock? On bikes that are no longer produced? 125GP? On bikes that once again need 'A' or 'B' kits fitted to win?

F3...where money wins?

Pro Twins?

Remember this though...how come now we have no true 'proddie racing' class we've not of late 'produced' any world class racers?

Well, all the guys you mentioned took their abilities off shore and honed their skills racing overseas. Good to see the likes of Sam Smith doing a few races in Aus but really some of the younger guys need to quit NZ and head for Aus or even better Spain or the UK. I blame Andrew Stroud, while the old bugger keeps winning here in NZ it makes it a bit tougher for a young Kiwi to take a NZ champ title with them in their CV's.

[gav]

Isn't it about time Shaun told us what he has now that we have tried so hard to keep this thread going...

Yes, of course he should, otherwise I might end up having to move this thread to Pointless Drivel ......