True Production Racing series

[wharfy]

o.k, so how many of you that advocate a stock 600 class would go out and buy a brand new 600 to do a season at national level on one ? $16000 (ish) buy in, plus fairings, wheels, spares, and a bunch of other stuff. How many would actually do that ?
fair question, no ?

Fair Yes
Maybe not a brand new one, but one with wheels (an 06 around $9K -$11K depending on condition - whats the going rate ) ?
I already have paddock stands and tyre warmers (if they were allowed) . Maybe I would not do a complete National Series as I know I would not be in contention, but it sure would be fun to do some of them and I would like to think there would be some close (ish) racing in the middle of the pack (where I would hope to be ) If I am total rubbish as a racer then it would be obvious but it would not have cost me a fortune to find out. On the other hand if I can run in the middle of the field and come back to the pits with an adrenaline tremor, and hang out with the real racers for a moderate investment I would be as happy as a pig in shit.
I am VERY keen to check out Shaun's proposal.

[jrandom]

$16000 (ish) buy in, plus fairings, wheels, spares, and a bunch of other stuff. How many would actually do that ?

Doing your best to stretch the point, aren't you?

Try $10K on tardme for a year-old road bike with big chicken strips, and $500 per race meet on a single set of tyres.

And, yes, I would do that. I love riding bikes enough to spend that much money on the sport. But no more, because I can only devote so much of my life and income to it, y'dig?

And I'm well aware that I could theoretically do that right now - but what's the point if I know that any of the front runners would be a good few seconds a lap slower just by hopping off their bikes and onto mine? Takes the fun out of it.

All I sniff in this thread is a minority of guys trying to type sufficient bullshit to drown out a clear call for racing rule changes that would make it difficult for them to flog expensive performance parts.

And it smells kinda bad to me.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Doing your best to stretch the point, aren't you?

Try $10K on tardme for a year-old road bike with big chicken strips, and $500 per race meet on a single set of tyres.

And, yes, I would do that. I love riding bikes enough to spend that much money on the sport. But no more, because I can only devote so much of my life and income to it, y'dig?

And I'm well aware that I could theoretically do that right now - but what's the point if I know that any of the front runners would be a good few seconds a lap slower just by hopping off their bikes and onto mine? Takes the fun out of it.

All I sniff in this thread is a minority of guys trying to type sufficient bullshit to drown out a clear call for racing rule changes that would make it difficult for them to flog expensive performance parts.

And it smells kinda bad to me.

You can pick up a respectable 2005 GSXR600 for 7k.. I think would fit the class quite well.

[jrandom]

You can pick up a respectable 2005 GSXR600 for 7k.. I think would fit the class quite well.

Exactly.

Stock GSXR600s haven't gotten a hell of a lot faster or slower over the last 3 years, and there's plenty of them floating around.

But right now the rules mean that they're not competitive. End of story.

Change the rules, reduce the cost, more guys go racing and the talent floats to the top regardless of whether it can afford to get past a $50K per season starting barrier... everyone except Mr Taylor and 'Mishy' (neither of whom race!) wins.

[gammaguy]

everyone except Mr Taylor and 'Mishy' (neither of whom race!) wins.

yeah,and without guys "not racing"but instead working on bikes,suspension whatever,where would all the "guys who race"be?

[gav]

Doing your best to stretch the point, aren't you?

Try $10K on tardme for a year-old road bike with big chicken strips, and $500 per race meet on a single set of tyres.

Except alot of the time the bikes have so much bling on them and it would need to in production trim? Might have emulators fitted? Aftermarket pipe, P/C, K&N filter etc, all need to swap back to proddy spec .....

[gav]

Fair Yes
Maybe not a brand new one, but one with wheels (an 06 around $9K -$11K depending on condition - whats the going rate ) ?
I already have paddock stands and tyre warmers (if they were allowed) . Maybe I would not do a complete National Series as I know I would not be in contention, but it sure would be fun to do some of them and I would like to think there would be some close (ish) racing in the middle of the pack (where I would hope to be ) If I am total rubbish as a racer then it would be obvious but it would not have cost me a fortune to find out. On the other hand if I can run in the middle of the field and come back to the pits with an adrenaline tremor, and hang out with the real racers for a moderate investment I would be as happy as a pig in shit.
I am VERY keen to check out Shaun's proposal.

Good to see your enthusiasm, but rounds of the National race series arent really where you should be trying out this road racing lark? How many club days have done? Have you got a competition licence? How many entries on it?

[HDTboy]

Try $10K on tardme for a year-old road bike with big chicken strips, and $500 per race meet on a single set of tyres.

And, yes, I would do that. I love riding bikes enough to spend that much money on the sport. But no more, because I can only devote so much of my life and income to it, y'dig?

And I'm well aware that I could theoretically do that right now - but what's the point if I know that any of the front runners would be a good few seconds a lap slower just by hopping off their bikes and onto mine? Takes the fun out of it.

Jason Hulme was on a $16k second hand race bike at Wanganui last year. He was using a set of 3 tyres per meeting at the national series.
These are the sort of costs you propose. From what I recall he did rather well, constantly running in the top 5, and getting a fair amount of TV coverage.

What's stopping you doing the same Dan? Stop talking about it and go out and to the best you can with the current situation rather than trying to change the situation to fit you. Gav makes a very good point.

Lets assume there's a "true production" class. I buy a brand new wreck from an insurance company, it may happen to have a shiny gold shock in the back, and the exhaust dented to the point it doesn't flow. Go price up a stock shock and exhaust system for me cause these bits will need replacing before i hit the track, then price up an alternative aftermarket exhaust. Which way would keep my costs down the best?

I'd like to see anything goes in our premier classes, as that is the source of innovative ideas. Development is currently stifled to the point of non-existence.

[Shaun]

Good to see your enthusiasm, but rounds of the National race series arent really where you should be trying out this road racing lark? How many club days have done? Have you got a competition licence? How many entries on it?

A Polite question for you GAV

are you actually interested in this class as a potentuall rider?

I am just trying to figure out if you are an interested party, or just some one who has to add there 2 cents worth?

[jrandom]

What's stopping you doing the same Dan? Stop talking about it and go out and to the best you can with the current situation rather than trying to change the situation to fit you.

Nothing's stopping me.



But after the '09 winter series, Clubmans will no longer be where I want to play.

And why not change the situation to fit me? It's not just me who feels this way.

... source of innovative ideas. Development is currently stifled to the point of non-existence.

You know I love you, bro, but I do also think you've got your head a little too far up RT's arse and have therefore swallowed a little too much propaganda.

Fuxache, motorcycle racing is not economy-stimulating R&D, it's just a sport. To listen to RT you'd think it was only slightly below more efficient dairy farming practices in terms of things that NZ scientists should be worrying about.

'Development' happens at the head offices of Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Triumph. (And Ohlins, of course, all hail the mighty Swedes with the elaborate and opaque pricing structure, etc.) Here, we just buy the results and go have fun on them.

(Yes, I know RT & Co spend ages twiddling shock settings to suit riders, and that's 'development'. But there are plenty of engine tuners around the country who spend even more time twiddling engines to make better power, and I don't see them in this thread preaching doom and gloom about the idea of production racing.)

My point is that some simple rule changes could halve the cost of a racing season and make the whole process a shitload easier to handle. That really is true.

I don't advocate scrapping the formula classes, but how about a matched 'proddy' class alongside each (like F3 and Pro Twins, but more 'proddy' than Pro Twins)?

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

the reality is that the nationals are lacking in numbers. Something has to be done to get the numbers up and the spectators on seats. THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN BY ITSELF. In fact, the coming season and 2010 season will see either a reduction of numbers or reduced racing budgets as the economy tightens. For example, I know Brian Bernard is contending with a reduced budget this year. I can only speculate, but he may not be running the same number or riders this year, than last.

Point is, look at the big picture, motorcycle racing is struggling. Maybe proddie racing is what is needed to get the numbers and bums on seats? Look at the success on of the Suzuki Swift class! what a spectacle. great racing! CHEAP racing. ALthough, sorry Pete, but I couldnt race GB500's, would rather race bicycles!


I would be keen to race a proddie class with gixxer 600's, just cant do it this season but will be on grid in 2010, just for the love of riding, racing and meeting people.

[madkeenandy]

You can pick up a respectable 2005 GSXR600 for 7k.. I think would fit the class quite well.

What will stop someone going out and buying the latest and greatest 600 and race it against your outdated model?

[Sketchy_Racer]

What will stop someone going out and buying the latest and greatest 600 and race it against your outdated model?

Nothing at all, That is something you will never be able to stop happening. It's how all proddy racing has ever worked out.

[Ivan]

yeah,and without guys "not racing"but instead working on bikes,suspension whatever,where would all the "guys who race"be?

Agreed Fully, Full ups to these guys including Shaun when he hasnt been riding helping people with suspension etc.

Also If you dont know Mishy used to race only up until a few years ago and was bloody fast on buckets and 250GP also seen him riding a 125GP and was quick as heck on that to


Shaun Id be fully in If I wasnt commited to my SV but have spent so much so far getting to a point and dont want to pull out now but in the future I would be very keen in a class like this

[HDTboy]

But after the '09 winter series, Clubmans will no longer be where I want to play.

Last year Chris won the winter series on a 3 year old bike while I was racing a 5 year old bike. No excuses for you

Fuxache, motorcycle racing is not economy-stimulating R&D,

'Development' happens at the head offices of Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Triumph. (And Ohlins, of course, all hail the mighty Swedes with the elaborate and opaque pricing structure, etc.) Here, we just buy the results and go have fun on them.

Have you read Top Dead Centre? Development is not all done in Japan. Ask Shaun how much work he'd do to a bike to make it faster if the rules allowed it. None of it's groundbreaking stuff, and it does not stimulate the economy, but it is fun, and there are people who take it to extremes.
Bill Buckley
Jason Easton
John Britten
Chris Osbourne
The guys with the 2T 750 triple
Burt Munro