True Production Racing series

[Mishy]

Why carry on with F3? The big jap 4 aren't making 250cc two strokes or 400cc 4 strokes anymore. Odd aforementioned expensive 450 hand grenade excepted, the class has had only one competitive type of bike for the last few years. AFAIK you're in Pro Twins yourself so that says something doesn't it? If there's a shortage of time/money and it's a choice between having F3 or production 600 (or some other class that can inject more interest and rider development at reasonable cost) then I'd rather see the demise of F3 (even if there's one less class to shove my old 400 in). And yeah, there's large numbers in F3 but compared to other "formula" classes, there's a disproportionate number of riders who're doing F3 for fun and not seriously competing for top positions. Not that I'm against fun (hell, that's why I race) but it's supposed to be an "elite" formula class. Look at the bikes competing in a class and adjust the rules to encourage competitive racing and control costs. Getting other bikes like F800's, GSR600's, FZ6's or XJ6 diversions into F3 might revive interest.
As for ozzies bike, I'm impressed how he's worked around the rules but as I've explained in another thread, it'll end up no cheaper than F2 (brand new R4.5, power commander, full ohlins + more servicing as it's running on 3 cylinders).
400's in post classics..yeah fine. But I can't understand why there's a 600cc limit when 99% of the available pre 89 post classic junior bikes in NZ are the 400's (in other countries 600's were popular in 89 but not here) . Again, needless extra cost to be competitive. With certain limitations, a rolling "10 years and over" class or similar would be far more interesting. Again, not reinventing the wheel as it's done in other clubs abroad.
A sorted 400 may be better at cornering than the pro-twins spec SV perhaps, but not the F3 spec SV's a lot of peeps are running. As for top end....any 400 that's passing you on the straights is likely to be either very tuned, have a 45Kg rider or simply came out of the previous corner faster (no offence like). 55ish ponies versus 70ish.
Not quite sure what you mean Ivan?

So you are against the idea of having F3 as a class for the less serious racer to go racing for fun on whatever they happen to put together on a small budget ?

[gammaguy]

Hey my point was that changing the rules in the belief that half the field are going to get up compete with the top guys is never going to work out that way. Everybody can race with the tops guys if they are that fast as it is, but there is a big difference in skill and natural ability that just won't change, even if you do try to "level the playing field" .
As far as the GP classes go, well 250 did fall over due to lack of support (I raced them and LOVED it, but you just can't have 3 bikes a meeting at that level) but 125 seems to be (currently) our biggest breeding ground for toung talent. Did you see any 125 racing here last year ? it was actually VERY good, well subscribed, and fastish to boot. Gotta keep that class !

totally agree,which also proves that the spectators(wether we like it or not,they pay the bills ultimately)enjoy close racing and dont particularly care what type of machine is racing.obviously as the knowledge of the public increases a preference for different (usually bigger/faster/noisier)types of bike comes in.if we all want to race/spanner/hang on to this sport,we gotta make it viable for all to be involved,as we all know there is no such thing as cheap racing.

Or do we all just want "pure"racing,to hell with everyone else and lets just race what we want?thats a downward spiral IMHO(even though i miss the strokers!)its all about relevance.

[Shaun]

So, which flavour of bike are we talking about then ? hint hint . . . . .
I like to fly kites

Suck me big boy

[crazy blanket]

Suck me big boy

Wash yer mouth Harris...you didn't tell me you were a fag ha ha!!!!

[HDTboy]

Haven't you seen him walking round the pits? He's always got a fag in his mouth CB

[wharfy]

A class with no mods like Shaun has proposed would be a greatway of getting introduced to the bigger 600 field before taking the gamble of running a full 600 supersport spec bike.

Hope it takes success and will be watching this space good luck Shaun

Me too, I'm VERY keen to find out the details, I could well be a starter.

[scrivy]

Haven't you seen him walking round the pits? He's always got a fag in his mouth CB

Have you never been asked at a prizegiving when hes had a bit of piss, to help him back onto his seat - or put plainly, to push his stool in for him..............

[k14]

125 GP and 250GP bikes just don't get raced anymore for very good reasons.

As far as the GP classes go, well 250 did fall over due to lack of support (I raced them and LOVED it, but you just can't have 3 bikes a meeting at that level) but 125 seems to be (currently) our biggest breeding ground for toung talent. Did you see any 125 racing here last year ? it was actually VERY good, well subscribed, and fastish to boot. Gotta keep that class !

Yes thank you for putting that point straight. Vtec, get your head out of the sand, 125GP racing in New Zealand and the world has never been stronger. Still getting 40+ grids at MotoGP! Along with up to 15 at the NZ champs it was the most consistently subscribed class along with 600's last year. As for the racing (and of course I am biased) it was the best, hands down, out of any of the classes. Top 10 covered by 2 seconds after 10 laps at Puke. Add to that the fact that any young guy that has been fast on a 600 in nationals in recent times did their apprenticeship on 125's (Smith, Lawrence, Midge Smart, Charlet) and you see how important the class is. It is not going anywhere for at least another 5 years!

[Ivan]

Food for thought from the guy on the front line . . . . . . . . .
You should speak your mind more often Mr, It's worth hearing.

Hah Im hoping thats a good thing Mishy? I dont understand 100% what that ment but I guess its good

[scracha]

So you are against the idea of having F3 as a class for the less serious racer to go racing for fun on whatever they happen to put together on a small budget ?

Dunno where you get that idea from as it's the complete opposite of the message I was trying to convey? I mentioned that I'm one of these racers on a limited budget in it for the fun. My point was that the current rules mean that racing competitively in F3 is not longer low budget (power commander, ohlins, gsxr front end, different cams, etc) and there are very few competitive bikes (bored out 400, moddied Sv650, weird 3 cyl 600 or the odd single). I did mention changing the F3 rules to bring in more modern and more relevant bikes (F800's, GSR600's, FZ6's, whatever..GSX750's even) and having limitations to keep the racing competitive and interesting. If guys like me on $hite old 20 year old 400's get booted out of F3 cos the rules change and we no longer have a chance of qualifying then thats probably no bad thing (there's always post classics). I'd rather shell out on a cheap used bandit 600 or FZ6 or summit than sink money into a 20 year old bike. Besides...I don't like SV650's :-)

For "budget limiting", I also mentioned formula 400 and/or a rolling "10 year old bikes and over" class. Even the pre89 junior is getting stupid (ohlins shod FZR 6/4 anyone?).

I also don't see the point of allowing clubmans racers to run full wets.

[ajturbo]

If you do not have a good set up man, there is NO point to having trick shit in ya bike.

:

dam.. you mean it was a waste of time painting my fuel tank then

[vtec]

Yes thank you for putting that point straight. Vtec, get your head out of the sand, 125GP racing in New Zealand and the world has never been stronger. Still getting 40+ grids at MotoGP! Along with up to 15 at the NZ champs it was the most consistently subscribed class along with 600's last year. As for the racing (and of course I am biased) it was the best, hands down, out of any of the classes. Top 10 covered by 2 seconds after 10 laps at Puke. Add to that the fact that any young guy that has been fast on a 600 in nationals in recent times did their apprenticeship on 125's (Smith, Lawrence, Midge Smart, Charlet) and you see how important the class is. It is not going anywhere for at least another 5 years!

Sorry, you're right RS125's are big at Nationals, but at club level in the North Island you get very limited numbers. So yes a great starting point for racers, but when I wanted to start racing I found it difficult to find a decent condition affordable RS125 to race, as that's what you need when you are starting, a cheap reliable bike that you can afford to crash. Streetstock fit the bill better. But after streetstock, I think you need a bigger step up than 125's (more weight and power to handle etc, I know 125's are fast). You really need 400's production bikes which they don't make anymore. 650 twins are close and I've seen some of them cornering amazing (but I just don't like them; lazy power delivery :P), but a production 600 class would be better.

Also about 125GP bikes, I reckon 5 years max and there'll be nearly none left. Two stroke is being phased out everywhere.

The rules that I think would be fair to apply to production 600's would be (IMO):
Fibreglass fairings.
Sprocket size changes.
Control tyres
A steering dampener if necessary
and that's it.

[brads]

"The rules that I think would be fair to apply to production 600's would be (IMO):
Fibreglass fairings.
Sprocket size changes.
Control tyres
A steering dampener if necessary
and that's it".[/QUOTE]

Braided brake lines?,tyre warmers? Trying to bring back rules we had in the 80s,I just cant see that happening,times have changed,remember when you could sit in the back of dads ute on the way to the rubbish dump and back,leave home in the morning,return at night and not once telling mum where you were?? That was then,this is now,tyres warmers bought in because it reduced the number of crashes on cold tyres,set of warmers well below cost of throwing it down the road,brake lines I think is a must have.

Proddy racing was HUGE back in the day,please someone tell me,why isnt it anywhere,anymore?

[sidecar bob]

Proddy racing was HUGE back in the day,please someone tell me,why isnt it anywhere,anymore?

Possibly because it is not commercially viable for aftermarket parts suppliers.
You can be fairly confident that some of the current classes exist because of pressure & lobbying from that quater.
You only need to look earlier in this thread to witness the level of evangalisim from the aftermarket supplier set.

[gammaguy]

Possibly because it is not commercially viable for aftermarket parts suppliers.
You can be fairly confident that some of the current classes exist because of pressure & lobbying from that quater.
You only need to look earlier in this thread to witness the level of evangalisim from the aftermarket supplier set.

yeah and if the distributors get involved suddenly we are proddy racing again.usually though it is up to the dealers to put a team together,like back in the day when the Wellington Motorcycles team was king of the hill.they had a shitload of(unofficial)backing from Suzuki though.

i dare anyone to say they didnt enjoy the racing in those days though.i sure did.