Another free lunch

[idleidolidyll]

Hi III,

At the risk of taking this (further) off topic than you have above (mods, feel free to move if you want), do you have any proof that this is John Key's "Idea" or are you just supposing?

Mully, you should know by now that there is little to no 'proof' of anything in politics. All you can do is listen to the verbalised policies and then try to figure out what they are not telling you and what that means.

Key has siaid both that he wants 40% of the super fund invested in NZ and also that he thinks the idea of the government 'using' the money 'short term' is a good idea.

Add 1+1, factor in that he's National and a Hollow Man and it doesn't take much of a leap to see that he wants to spend the super fund in the short term instead of using other income streams to fund his government.
He's placed himself between a rock and a hard place with his stupid tax cut bribes: to fund them we have to either find money somewhere else or cut services or both. Johnny boy is drooling at the mouth with the prospect of spending up on the super fund to make it LOOK like he's able to balance the books.

I predict increased debt and as with the last Nat Govt; massive reductions in real income compared to our nearest neighbor.

[MisterD]

Mully, you should know by now that there is little to no 'proof' of anything in politics. All you can do is listen to the verbalised policies and then try to figure out what they are not telling you and what that means.

Key has siaid both that he wants 40% of the super fund invested in NZ and also that he thinks the idea of the government 'using' the money 'short term' is a good idea.

He's also said that 40% figure will be the only intervention by politicians, and that it is a medium-long term goal - he will not be directing the fund trustees to crystalise huge losses internationally by moving immediately.

Government bonds will be issued to fund some infrastructure development, and it's likely that the "cullen" fund will invest in some of those - that's just part of a prudent investment strategy. Sheesh, I'll likely buy some myself.

We're looking at a situation where international funding is going to be hard to get for Kiwi companies - why not invest at home rather than in someone elses infrastructure, or are you just pissed that the left got gazzumped by good policy?

I predict increased debt and as with the last Nat Govt; massive reductions in real income compared to our nearest neighbor.

Increased debt is coming, that's a given and it's Cullen's tax and spend policies you should worry about...if he get's back in (shudder) I guarantee that the superfund will suddenly "decide" to invest in his trainset.

[trustme]

I predict increased debt and as with the last Nat Govt; massive reductions in real income compared to our nearest neighbor.

That is about the only part of your post that makes sense, however that debt will be incurred by whoever is in power be it Labor or National & it will be caused by the last 9 years of uncontrolled govt spending & a reserve bank that pushed up interest rates, between them they squeezed the private sector so hard it stalled, witness the collapse of the construction industry
Any govt is going to have a serious shortfall of funds to carry out their policies due to a self inflicted reduction in tax revenue, exacerbated by the overseas meltdown. The real hit is yet to come.
I started this thread because it is exactly this type of policy that is growing the public sector to a point where it is so dominant in the economy that when the hard times come we either run enormous deficits or make huge public spending cuts , your choice.

Something to ponder
The finance sector made up 25% of the US economy when the current collapse happened
The last collapse happenend with the tech stocks reached 25% of the market
Public sector makes up 40% of our economy , when a sector gets too big there is an inevitable & painful adjustment [ Rogernomics ]
So who wants to take bets on when our readjustment will take place.

[davereid]

....Key has siaid both that he wants 40% of the super fund invested in NZ and also that he thinks the idea of the government 'using' the money 'short term' is a good idea....

Its true that investing N.Z. money in N.Z. projects may not return the tax-payer the same rates as he cold possibly have recieved investing overseas.

However, Mr. Cullens clumsy "Cullen Fund" investments lose about $2-3 Million a day, so clearly chasing the high return is not always wise.

But at least we WILL end up with the asset we have invested in, rather than it being a malaysian road, that we will never get paid for.

....He's placed himself between a rock and a hard place with his stupid tax cut bribes: to fund them we have to either find money somewhere else or cut services or both.....

Actually thats true.

Even though Mr Key made generous provision for poor financial performance by Labour, no one could have reasonably forseen the real mess the books were in until Mr. Cullen was forced to open them.

Hardly Mr. Keys fault, but no doubt one we will hear about from you for the next few years as if it were Nationals fault they took the helm of of a leaky, rudderless ship, whose skilled crew had long since moved to the mainland..

[Flatcap]

At the risk of getting this slightly back on topic

This thing that annoys me about this is that the year I started uni (early 90s)they introduced fees and moved the goal posts on allowances. Unlike current students, my parents didn't have the opportunity to put aside money


On each consecutive year they increased fees and moved the allowance goal posts further. I also had to pay interest on my student loan right up to when it was paid back (and right after that they wiped interest!)

So since students of my cohort were royally screwed, I begrudge any concession current students get.

[Waxxa]

If someone wants an education, then all peoples should have an allowance to help with living costs. With Labour lifting the 'cap' on what parents earn will ensure that everyone gets something. This is a good thing.

The problem I have with Uni is that they dick around with presenting a course lesson, a couple of hours a week. No wonder it takes 3-5 years to complete a course. How does someone survive on $150 a week for that long. it's bullshit!

Also, how many doctors, lawyers does this country need? if we have enough then these courses should be stopped until such time as we need doctors and lawyers and instead push people into vocational areas that this country requires.

As for tax cuts, $18 a week is crap! That wont cover increases in fuel, food, power etc. If the tax cut was $50-$70, now we're talking. I would rather see my $18 go to the pensioners. The Govt. should leave taxes as they were and remove GST off food, fuel, power and water. This I feel, would generate more consumer spending.

[idleidolidyll]

Hi III,

At the risk of taking this (further) off topic than you have above (mods, feel free to move if you want)

good grief Mully, this is politics; it's all intertwined.

for your benefit: i graduated a few years ago and have obviously been on the student side of this debate.

means testing students is correct, funding should be for those who actually need it.

this is a brazen bribe to the right wing's 18 year olds who get to vote for the first time.

[trustme]

for your benefit: i graduated a few years ago and have obviously been on the student side of this debate.

What degree did you get ???

[SPman]

I like the saying "Dammit man, what's the point of being educated if you're stupid?"

There's a difference between education and learning.

[shingo]

Also, how many doctors, lawyers does this country need? if we have enough then these courses should be stopped until such time as we need doctors and lawyers and instead push people into vocational areas that this country requires.

Good idea, lets force people to learn something they won't enjoy, that'll keep them in the country.

p/t

[SPman]

When I went to Uni...(waaaaay back in Vietnam demo times...aaaaah those were the days.... ), if you had UE and HLC, you got 80% of your fees paid and a basic living allowance, paid three times a year, which was about the equivalent of $130 a week. Combined with high paying holiday jobs like the Wool stores, freezing works, wharves, etc and the odd night time job, a student could survive moderately OK, and even have time to do some study, in between bikes and being hauled off intersections in Queen St from the continuous protests. Most of the politicians in power at the moment went through the same system and basically had their education paid for by the State - and how did they repay that - brought in student loans, soaring course fees and systems that encouraged bums on seats, at the expense of all else.

Ingrates!

Perhaps they are having a "twinge" of conscience.........but...I doubt it.

[trustme]

and how did they repay that - brought in student loans, soaring course fees and systems that encouraged bums on seats, at the expense of all else.

Ingrates!

Perhaps they are having a "twinge" of conscience.........but...I doubt it.

And they will make you grateful even if it does kill you. !!!

Labour wants to teach you what to think
I'd rather be taught how to think.

[SPman]

So, it's a BA in History and Philosophy for you then........

[MisterD]

So, it's a BA in History and Philosophy for you then........

Congratulations on your "qualification"

[idleidolidyll]

What degree did you get ???

BAC

Bachelor of Applied Communication

In case you're wondering, I'm a sales manager