PR2/RA question

[MSTRS:Me]

I'm doing some soul searching at present as to which tyres to go with when mine current ones are more needy of replacement than just now...
Currently running Michelin Pilot Road 2 (PR2). These have been fantastic, particularly for long-lasting-ness. Those that know me, know I'm not 'fast' but I'm no nana either. I run these tyres at 33f/37r 1 or 2 up and at 12500kms of running I calculate that I have another 3000 or so before they are history.
Now, with that sort of performance, why would I consider anything else? Simple really...I've used Metzler MEZ4 and Z6 on my GSXR1100, and Michelin Pilot Sport (hated them) on the 750...in an effort to find a tyre that offered 'sufficient' grip and long life. I now know first hand that dual compound is the way to achieve this.
The thing is, I'm led to believe that the Continental Road Attacks have a graduated compound, which offers progressively greater grip the further they lean, and that they keep their heat better than the PR2s. They also apparently have stiffer sidewalls and run higher pressures

Conti's have always performed better at 36/42.....great tyres and last long too.

So...what to do? Is the RA a better tyre, with the same long life as the PR2, or not?
Or should I try the Michelin Pilot Power 2CT? Of which, I know almost nothing?

[NZsarge]

I've never heard anyone say anything but good things about PR2's. I'm running PP 2ct's at the moment and they are my favorite tyre closely followed by ContiRace Attack's, neither of these will last like a PR2 though.
I've tryed ContiSport Attack's on both the YZF and the FZ1 and they were ok but i'm not moved to go get any more of them.
I have also run PP 2ct's on both of these bikes and I cant say enough about the improvement in confidence they gave me on both of the bikes.
I reckon stick with the PR2's.

[Hitcher]

So far, all of the "dual compound" tyres I've run on my past two bikes have failed miserably in the durability stakes. The PR2s I ran on my FJR handled nicely, but for the first time ever I wore out a front tyre before the rear. Both sides of the tyre had completely cupped out after not quite 10,000km.

Dual compound rear tyres fluff up badly around the edges after a few thousand km. The Conti Road Attack rears (I've run three sets of these: two on the ST1300 and one on the FJR) were spectacularly bad at chopping out in this manner. My last PR2 rear was starting to go the same way but was spared the ignominy of failure by its very shabby front mate deciding to die first.

I'm now running a set of the new Dunlop Sportmax Roadsmarts (procured in Flagstaff Arizona), and will be most keen to see how these perform under slightly spirited one-up riding and also how long they last. The Avon Storms they replaced lasted nearly 13,000km of mostly two-up fully laden riding across some suboptimal North American roads.

Interestingly, the single compound Avon Storms (in my experience) handle just as well as their dual compound cousins and last considerably longer on big torquey bikes.

[MSTRS:Me]

I hear what you are saying Hitch. But I have to say that a tyre will only perform to it's best if it's matched to the bike/riding style. With all due respect, you are riding a whale by comparison, so I wouldn't expect the same life from the same tyre.
By 'cupping' I assume you mean this?

[imdying]

Dual compound rear tyres fluff up badly around the edges after a few thousand km. The Conti Road Attack rears (I've run three sets of these: two on the ST1300 and one on the FJR) were spectacularly bad at chopping out in this manner. My last PR2 rear was starting to go the same way but was spared the ignominy of failure by its very shabby front mate deciding to die first.

I wonder if that's a weight issue (not that I'm calling your bikes fat!)? Perhaps they're more 'life extended sportsbike tyres' rather than tourer tyres?

[Pumba]

I ran the conties RA on the SV and absolutly loved them, and once the OEM set of PP on the Triumph are dead I will be putting them back on there.

And at 12,000km out of a set including Auckland comuting and about 4,000 odd km around the South Island I cannot complain about the wear I got either.

The RA can move a little in the wet, but was a feedback thing as they never once felt like letting go, I didnt mind that and quite liked it actually but I can understand if some riders dont.

[MSTRS:Me]

Thanks Pumba. That's the sort of feedback I am looking for. You have Pilot Powers on the 1050, and are going to replace with RAs?
The PR2s have only felt unsettled once, it was and damp in places. I thought my pillion was uncomfy and was shifting about. Mid-corner.

[Hitcher]

I wonder if that's a weight issue (not that I'm calling your bikes fat!)? Perhaps they're more 'life extended sportsbike tyres' rather than tourer tyres?

I know lots of people on smaller, lesser powered bikes who have nothing but praise for dual compound tyres. Indeed the Conti Road Attack is TSS's best selling "sports touring" tyre. My point, based on some personal experience, is that these tyres are at best fragile and that there are single compound tyres that handle as well as, if not better than dual compounds, (most fortunately from my point of view) that would probably go just as well on smaller, lesser powered bikes as well.

And I don't think it's a weight issue (an FJR with a full load of liquids on board weighs less than 300kg). I think it's a torque issue.

[Pumba]

Thanks Pumba. That's the sort of feedback I am looking for. You have Pilot Powers on the 1050, and are going to replace with RAs?
The PR2s have only felt unsettled once, it was and damp in places. I thought my pillion was uncomfy and was shifting about. Mid-corner.

I cant say I have ever had a complaint with the PP, in the dry I have never had a problem, they have done everything ever asked of them, but in the wet I have never felt as comfortale as I did on the Contis, possible just a personal preference thing once again, or possibly it has just been my riding (even though I have riden regualry ever since my off, the trip over the front of a car did knock my confidece and it has taken a bit to feel 100% on the bike again, especially in lower grip situations) and the tyres are just a convenient thing to blame it on.

Probally when I replace the PP I will go to a Road Attack Rear, and a Sport Attack Front. I had just replaced the 12,000km old road attack set with that combination 700 od km beforethe SV was written off and the couple of sprited rides that I got to do I was very impresed with the slightly more agressive profile and increased sidewall grip of the sport attack front.

[MSTRS:Me]

I've been doing some google research, and the consensus from all over is that the PR2 is a better tyre in all ways than the RA. So, unless something else pops up as a good option, I will be getting another Michelin. The front is still good, but viewed at certain angles, scalloping on the sides is apparent so that'll probably get replaced too. Perhaps with a PP?

[Maha]

I'm doing some soul searching at present as to which tyres to go with when mine current ones are more needy of replacement than just now...
Currently running Michelin Pilot Road 2 (PR2). These have been fantastic, particularly for long-lasting-ness. Those that know me, know I'm not 'fast' but I'm no nana either. I run these tyres at 33f/37r 1 or 2 up and at 12500kms of running I calculate that I have another 3000 or so before they are history.
Now, with that sort of performance, why would I consider anything else? Simple really...I've used Metzler MEZ4 and Z6 on my GSXR1100, and Michelin Pilot Sport (hated them) on the 750...in an effort to find a tyre that offered 'sufficient' grip and long life. I now know first hand that dual compound is the way to achieve this.
The thing is, I'm led to believe that the Continental Road Attacks have a graduated compound, which offers progressively greater grip the further they lean, and that they keep their heat better than the PR2s. They also apparently have stiffer sidewalls and run higher pressures

So...what to do? Is the RA a better tyre, with the same long life as the PR2, or not?
Or should I try the Michelin Pilot Power 2CT? Of which, I know almost nothing?

My Triumph came with Metz Z6's....I couldnt wait to change them...you have seen the rear tyre on my current bike eh? well the Z6 on the Triumph was like that when I got it. On went the PR2's and I ran them at 36psi front and 42psi rear.
I will hold out a tad longer (maybe a few weeks) until I replace the current rubber (rear only) and I loved the performance and grip of the PR2's on the Sprint so thats what im sticking with...better the devil you know for me.

[imdying]

My point, based on some personal experience, is that these tyres are at best fragile

And that's my point... of course they are if you attach them to a whale.

And I don't think it's a weight issue (an FJR with a full load of liquids on board weighs less than 300kg). I think it's a torque issue.

I hate to break it to you, but that's bloody heavy. The SV (admittedly not even nearly standard) doesn't even hit 200kg gassed up good to go.

[Hitcher]

I hate to break it to you, but that's bloody heavy. The SV (admittedly not even nearly standard) doesn't even hit 200kg gassed up good to go.

That's not heavy. It's 40kg less than an ST1300 in the same state of dress. Adding an extra 200kg of combined passengers and luggage? Now THAT'S heavier...

[Max Preload]

I wonder if that's a weight issue (not that I'm calling your bikes fat!)? Perhaps they're more 'life extended sportsbike tyres' rather than tourer tyres?

I've just replaced my PR2 rear with a Diablo Rosso (because due to the ineptness of Northern Accessories, they ran out of PR2s and couldn't give anyone an accurate ETA). Now, my PR2 also cupped badly on the edge, but the Diablo Rosso which is much more of a sports tyre isn't exhibiting any signs of doing the same. It could just be that the tread doesn't go all the way to the edge of the tyre though. See the pictures attached - the second one was taken with my phone at the end of 20km of gravel (Jafar knows all about that... 2km, my arse! ) and the cupping makes it look like a bloody sand tyre.

The PR2s have only felt unsettled once, it was and damp in places

I never lost confidence in the PR2, however the Diablo Rosso has been exhibiting some bizarre behaviour in the wet despite being unshakable in the dry. The day after I got it fitted three weeks ago I could forgive it for unexpectedly spinning on wet exposed tar - even in 4th at about 3800rpm and fairly light throttle - after all it had only done about 100kms. However, the weekend before last it did the same thing and had probably 600km's on it by that stage.

[Mishy]

Currently running Michelin Pilot Road 2 (PR2). These have been fantastic, particularly for long-lasting-ness. Those that know me, know I'm not 'fast' but I'm no nana either.
I've used Metzler MEZ4 and Z6 on my GSXR1100, and Michelin Pilot Sport (hated them) on the 750...in an effort to find a tyre that offered 'sufficient' grip and long life. I now know first hand that dual compound is the way to achieve this.
The thing is, I'm led to believe that the Continental Road Attacks have a graduated compound, which offers progressively greater grip the further they lean, and that they keep their heat better than the PR2s. They also apparently have stiffer sidewalls and run higher pressures

That's a lot of thinking going on there ! Here are some facts to help you along. The Conti Road Attack is single compound - you don't see continuous compound until Sport Attack. Road Attack is designed as a high milage sports touring tyre, and (in my expereince) behaves just like that. The front tyre is designed for stable handling, the compound will give excellent grip from almost any temperature. The "Micro porous" compound is better in the wet than anything else out there.
Durabilty from these tyres comes from having a very thick layer in the Zenith area ( centre) of the tyre. They are a 0 degree steel belt design, which means no bad handling from the carcase (standing wave stuff) You would normally expect tyre pressures to be 36/42 on a large sports bike, although we sometimes get better bump behaviour with a couple less in the rear. The catch with that is that (as with all tyres) you give away tyre life with the lower pressure ( more heat/more wear) - as much as 7% for a two psi drop in pressure.
If you want to compare to another tyre, then the type of tyre you should look at would be the MEZ4 or Z6 you talked about. Road Attack is a much newer design in all areas, and will be a better bet because of that. The design target is very similar though, just more advanced, so I'm picking it would suit you. I have consistantly seen milage up around the numbers you have mentioned out of Road Attack rears, and the design brief for these tyres showed that Conti aimed for a lot more dry and wet grip than the Z6. I've spent a lot of time talking with the head compound engineer at Conti, and he's seldom wrong.
I saw a comment describing Road Attack as "fragile" - i can't imagine what this would mean.
Hope this helps with your thinking