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Thread: Getting a newer 250

  1. #31
    Join Date
    28th September 2004 - 23:00
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    1992 VFR400R, 2007 SV650 Pro Twin
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    Hyosungs... slow, low quality, but pretty, don't even try keeping up with real sportsbikes. Very average brakes and suspension.

    Honda VTR250, a good allrounder, and no doubt plenty of fun, but not enough power to blast away the boy racer cars, and not pretty enough for my liking. Single front disc.

    Honda CBF250 Hornet, another good bike, fast too, cheap to run, reliable, not as pretty as the CBR though, a definite contender. 4 cylinder, good power. Single front disc though?

    Two strokes (RS, RGV, NSR)... Unreliable as all heck but fast and fun. In my opinion as someone who is good with tools, I'd still rather be able to ride my bike whenever I want and not have to work on it 50% of the time, and they use as much gas as a small family car. Will cost you more to run than an average car. Good power, good brakes, lightweight and good suspension.

    Kawasaki GPX (ninja), fast for a twin, and comfortable riding position, no race bike though and it was designed in the early 80's when bikes were at their ugliest. Total commuter though, waste of time as a weekend blaster.

    Suzuki GSX, early 80's designed big heavy slow, but I think they are reliable. Not as good as the GPX.

    Now for the real contenders:
    All four stroke
    All 250 cc
    All 6 speed
    All have a redline around 19,000rpm.
    All have approx 45hp
    All weigh about 150-160 kg
    All handle great and go fast.
    Not all of them are reliable though.
    Suzuki GSXR, Yamaha FZR, Kawasaki ZXR, and Honda CBR.

    These are the bikes that have been competitive at 250 fourstroke racing here in Victoria Australia. However we can narrow down our comparison a bit. There is a very good reason why you don't see hardly any GSXR's around. They get compression issues. The valves wear out the seats too fast, and you can throw the engine away.

    The FZR, so rare, you probably won't find any for sale, and if you do it will be because of issues. And again there is a reason why they are so rare. There's not many left running because of reliability. But the fastest 250 I've seen in the fourstroke 250 class here is an FZR. Lots of mods. Pulls out of about 50% of the races due to issues though :P

    The ZXR, second most common quality 250 4 stroke. These bikes are fast fun, bigger than the CBR and handle awesome. The tip over slower than the CBR, but are more stable mid corner, could have something to do with the adjustable suspension. They have known cam chain tensioner issues sometimes, and are renowned for oil leaks.

    The CBR 250 RR, from where I'm sitting, possibly the best all round bike ever made. I'm 5 foot 10 and it's comfortable as. No sore wrists like I used to get on the RGV or CBR600. It's got cam gears as opposed to a cam chain, which seems to remove some of the reliability issues that the ZXR gets. It gets close to 20km/l which is good enough (same as all the other 4 cylinder screamers). It's light, and very flickable, I haven't ridden a bike which turns into corners easier, and I've ridden a lot of bikes. It is a lane splitting legend. Awesome brakes. The suspension is a little soft, but that never seemed to bother me even on the race track going for wins. I've couriered on them. So 8 or 9 hours in the saddle with a large pack on my back, and it was still OK. The sitting position is brilliant, more upright than the average sportsbike, still great for racing. And we know they go for over 100,000k's if you know it's been looked after with quality oil. Plus they take crashes extremely well.

    There is a very good reason why there are a lot of these around 20 years after they were made. They are still being imported, because they are the best learner restriction bike ever, but they are getting harder and harder to find in Japan, because the market for them in Australia is huge. And they are very reliable. I prefer them to riding 600's around town, and they are the most fun I've ever had on the track aswell.

    The single R CBR is not as good handling or braking wise. Don't bother.

  2. #32
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    27th November 2003 - 12:00
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    I put a fly screen on my Zeal. But of course I would. I'm a fat nana.
    "Standing on your mother's corpse you told me that you'd wait forever." [Bryan Adams: Summer of 69]

  3. #33
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    29th August 2007 - 23:51
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    I'm happy with my bike. Good for commuting. Good enough for me on twisty blats.


  4. #34
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    3rd July 2003 - 12:00
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    I hear what the CBR250RRRRRRRRR fans are saying, but you're still talking about a 15-year-old 250cc inline four. I'm sure they do last well if serviced carefully, but how on earth will you tell whether it has been?

    Like I said, it's a lottery. And the CBR still doesn't even have two-thirds of the power of a derestricted RS250...

    My choice, out of the bikes mentioned so far, would be the VTR250. Although they're a bit slow. Still noticeably better than a CBX or a Hyobag, though.
    kiwibiker is full of love, an disrespect.
    - mikey

  5. #35
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    28th September 2004 - 23:00
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    Fair point on the lottery thing JRandom. But if you ride it and it's sweet, chances are it'll be sweet for a long time to come.

    With regard to the power difference between the RS and the CBR, on the CBR you've got usable power from 8,000 rpm right up to 19,000rpm, that's well over half of the rev range, and it's pretty much on max power from 12,000rpm to 19,000rpm which is a full one third of the range. The two strokers have a much tighter/peakier power range, which makes it harder to use and you have to change gears a lot more often. Although the RS250 is lighter, and I love light bikes. But the reliability issues and costs put me off.

    What are your figures for power for a 250 2 stroke... I thought they were around 55hp, and the fourstrokes were around 45hp...(all measured at the crank). That would put the 4strokes at 4/5ths of the power of the 2 strokes.

  6. #36
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    8th October 2008 - 22:49
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    Yamaha Zeal 1992
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    Tauranga
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    Ive got a zeal I only paid $3000 for it
    Jap import 1st NZ owner
    Good aceleration
    My mates have got a GT250R and a honda Xelvis
    Kept up with them fine and that was only the 4th time Id ever riden a bike and the are well experenced compared to me

  7. #37
    Join Date
    15th November 2007 - 10:42
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    1996, Honda Hornet 250
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    Bucklame
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    Why are the zeals so much cheaper than the bandits and hornets? I was passed by both a hornet and a bandit today in Newmarket and they both sounded like sewing machines. I was also passed by a 2 smoke vespa doings its wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee thing, not nice at all.

    Do VTRs sound any less like sewing machines? Do the 250 inline fours sound better with aftermarket pipes?
    Timmay

    Spark plugs for motorbike $78...Speeding ticket on test ride to prove spark plugs have fixed problem $80...knowing problem is fixed...Priceless

  8. #38
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    27th November 2003 - 12:00
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferriswheel View Post
    Ive got a zeal I only paid $3000 for it
    Jap import 1st NZ owner
    Good aceleration
    My mates have got a GT250R and a honda Xelvis
    Kept up with them fine and that was only the 4th time Id ever riden a bike and the are well experenced compared to me
    Good choice! And Zeals can be toinged up quite nicely with an appropriately inserted EXUP valve. Apparently.
    "Standing on your mother's corpse you told me that you'd wait forever." [Bryan Adams: Summer of 69]

  9. #39
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    31st July 2006 - 16:40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitcher View Post
    Good choice! And Zeals can be toinged up quite nicely with an appropriately inserted EXUP valve. Apparently.
    Common mod in japan to fit the FZR250 exhaust , not sure on performance gain though . Enjoyed my Zeal , fine performing trouble free machine.

    What about ZR250 BaliusII/Suzuki GSX250FX , both are kawasaki's with inline4's built/sold 01-08
    There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    all's fair in love, war and tax avoidance.

  10. #40
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    28th September 2004 - 23:00
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    One of the guys over here races the ZR250 Balius (Ken, part owner of Victoria Motorcycle Wreckers)... He calls it the Bayliss edition. He's one of the fastest. But he's put ZXR250 cams on it, aftermarket exhaust, and changed the jetting, skimmed the head to increase the compression ratio. And he's had it dynotuned for a ballistic 38-39hp at the rear wheel hahahaha.

    The guys who tinker with their bikes too much always seem to have problems though. Fuel blockages or electronic problems seem the most common.

    Balius appears to be a great naked bike, a bit detuned compared to the ZXR in stock form, but all in all a great learner bike.

  11. #41
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    8th October 2008 - 22:49
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    I have a Over Racing Project exhaust on mine and it sounds mint
    only taken it to 16 though which is well withen the redline and the FZRs can rev to 20

  12. #42
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    15th November 2007 - 10:42
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    1996, Honda Hornet 250
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    Bucklame
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    The testing begins...

    Friday Lunch time I went for a nosey to Mt Eden Motorcycles and Red Baron just to chew the fat and try out some seats:

    Verdicts are
    Hyosung - Nice big sports bike feel - but i know they are gutless
    VTR - feels like I would expect a motard to feel like
    Zeal - Skinnier than I expected and quite laid back
    ZXR - Bigger than a CBR but still very much a small sport bike
    New Ninja - very skinny, very shiny, very expensive

    Bandit - good fit between upright and sports crouch, and nice styling to boot...

    So today I took a bandit for a test ride - out to Albania and along the Coatesville Riverhead road for a few corners and a bit of open road

    Verdict- WOW, what an awesome bike, so different to the CBX in every respect, all the controls feel great and a really nice seating position, loads of power above 10k might be a little less fun commuting or around town though. I could definitely see myself on this bike for long rides though. Only other downside is a brand new - still got centre hairs - Shenko front tyre, what a thrill that gives in a slight lean on a wet corner - arrrrrgggghhhhhhh. I think that would have to be replaced as part of the negotiating price process.

    So... I will find a Hornet to sit on and maybe take that and a VTR out for a test ride soon

    Now back to studying...
    Timmay

    Spark plugs for motorbike $78...Speeding ticket on test ride to prove spark plugs have fixed problem $80...knowing problem is fixed...Priceless

  13. #43
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    15th June 2008 - 18:13
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    Quote Originally Posted by vtec View Post
    Fair point on the lottery thing JRandom. But if you ride it and it's sweet, chances are it'll be sweet for a long time to come.

    With regard to the power difference between the RS and the CBR, on the CBR you've got usable power from 8,000 rpm right up to 19,000rpm, that's well over half of the rev range, and it's pretty much on max power from 12,000rpm to 19,000rpm which is a full one third of the range. The two strokers have a much tighter/peakier power range, which makes it harder to use and you have to change gears a lot more often. Although the RS250 is lighter, and I love light bikes. But the reliability issues and costs put me off.

    What are your figures for power for a 250 2 stroke... I thought they were around 55hp, and the fourstrokes were around 45hp...(all measured at the crank). That would put the 4strokes at 4/5ths of the power of the 2 strokes.
    Are you kidding me? They are shitloads faster... 40hp for 4 strokes and 155- 160kg... with a shiteload less torque. take a honda nsr250 that's 60hp and 125kg..... with as much torque as a VFR400... it's miles faster mate.

    30kg is a huge difference in weight.... 15 to 20 hp more, and then you've got an absolute boatload more torque from the superior 2 stroke torque curve.

    seriously... you can't compare them, the 4 stroke 250's are absolutely gutless in comparison. couldn't believe the first time i hopped on a zxr250....

  14. #44
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    28th September 2004 - 23:00
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    Just a different power delivery, so the 4 strokes feel less powerful than they are, and the 2 strokes feel more powerful than they are. 55hp at the crank for the 2 strokes... approx 45hp at the wheel... the 4 strokes are 37hp at the wheel or 45 at the crank. Top speed would be about 20kph difference (190kph for 4 stroke 210kph for 2 stroke). Acceleration on the 4 strokes 0-100 in 5.0 seconds on the 2 strokes 4.5 (??TBC) seconds. That is a noticeable difference. But the power difference aren't as big as you are making out. The weight difference is about 25kg. The 2 strokes weigh about 128kg, the 4 strokes weigh about 153kg.

    This comparison is for stock standard bikes. Porting the 2 strokes makes a BIG difference.

    Just started playing Tourist Trophy on the playstation 2... That game is amazing, and a lot more realistic than I expected. 5/5 for me, the NSR250 is listed as having 41hp at the wheel, the modified race version one has about 45hp at the wheel. The Yamaha TZ250 has 91HP at the wheel. Big difference between race and road ones. I won all the early races up to and including the 1000's and above on the NSR250 in that game was kick arse.

    Torque doesn't mean all that much when racing, power delivery is far more important, and the 4 strokes have an easier power delivery to take advantage of... It all comes down to energy output per second, which is what power is, and handling, and braking. And you'll find that the torque curve and power curves are far more favourable on the 4strokes, even if they don't have quite the same kick in the pants effect.

    2 strokes are definitely faster, but it might surprise you how close the 4 strokes can be. I love chasing 2strokes on the race track. So much fun.

    P.s. I want a VFR400 next. Where did you get yours? I think it's the correct step after the CBR250RR, and they are marginally quicker than the 250 2strokes.

    For a comparison around Puke on my first ever race day I got 1.15.12 (I know they could do 1.14) on a CBR250RR, the best 400 riders get about 1.07, so that's 8 seconds over an inexperienced rider on a 250 4 stroke, what do the fastest production 250 2 strokes do, I'm guessing 1.10's? So from where I'm standing the 250 2strokes are about as quick in comparison to the 250 4 strokes as the 400 4strokes are in comparison to the 250 2strokes if that makes sense. It's actually pretty damn close.

    I'm trying to find out what an RGV 250 or similar will do around pukekohe... Cant' find jack on the internet. Anybody help me?

  15. #45
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    27th October 2008 - 11:28
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    Well I see you have ridden the ZXR that you wanted to hear about but if you still want info from owners than here you go from me:
    -mine has EXTREMELY high km's and I haven't needed to do anything but change oil every 3k as with all bikes and get new chain, replace the cam chain tensioner which was cheap.
    -I ring the neck of mine (13,000rpm every shift, some 16,000 around the twistys today at 140+, good for a 250) and it never misses a beat
    -Cheaper than the cbr250 by a long shot.
    -Has twin front disks for sweet stopping power compared to other bikes its age.
    -Don't worry about your weight with it, I'm a real fatty and it still hauls me easily.
    -sounds better than all other inline 4 250s IMO. Nice deep sound to high pitched F1 like sound at high revs (like the cbr250 with more balls)
    -Bigger than the cbr250 so you can feel comfortable for cruizes, did 300kms today practically non stop before i started to get a cramped leg.

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