National level race classes

[Shaun]

Talking about Bshit stops.--er looks like were back on for friday mate.

I told you that yesterday by phone mate, please leave the shit of the net dude

[slowpoke]

Dude, why are people so scared to do their local round of the Nats?
So what if you're slower than the fast guys. So what!
It's a great way for you to learn their techniques by following them in practices and hopefully in the races. If they can go around a corner at x speed, then why cant you?? It gives you one hell of a boost to your own riding and belief of your own limits. Its great, and you get to hang out with them and ask them questions. They're not gods, they are approachable, and they will give you great advice. The last thing they want to see is their sport die off 'cause no newbies are coming through the ranks. They will help you. Believe me. It also boosts the numbers in the unfortunately dwindling classes.

Scrivy

Couldn't agree more mate, well said. I think it was last year Peter Tanner won the Clubman's race at Manfeild on his Aprilia and I'm like "WTF?! The guy is a front runner at the club rounds, surely he should be in the main event?" Maybe we need to make Clubman's for Clubman's racers or non-qualifiers, not anybody who's ego is too fragile to race against the best, thereby forcing more bikes into the main feild.

Harking back to my favourite soap box I still think that the main problem is the lack of incentive for 600 riders to step up to the big bikes. Thou' riders are effectively punished at club level because for an extra 10 bucks a 600 or SV650 or pre-89 400 rider gets twice as much racing and/or qualifying time in alternative classes. Why would you want to step up and get less racing? The situation needs to be addressed with a logical progression put in place that encourages our top riders to move into the top classes.

I watched some 4 wheeled racing this weekend on TV and I was amazed at the money on show. There were school kids racing $50,000 Formula Fords.....lots of 'em! Same for the late model production cars and Mini Challenge cars with youngsters somehow fronting up with lots of cash and lots of sponsors for what is a fairly boring spectacle.

Even allowing for a biased perspective bike racing is at least as good a spectacle if not better yet we struggle to get people and sponsors involved.

Juggling classes, and introducing production spec bikes won't help us tap into the pool of sponsors that is out there ready and willing to throw cash about (as proven by the cars) neither will down-speccing our bikes to remove us further from international classes and competition. The problem with money in our sport is one of promotion and marketing not whether lil' Abe rides an SV650 or a standard/modified 600 as his next bike.

[Shaun]

Couldn't agree more mate, well said. I think it was last year Peter Tanner won the Clubman's race at Manfeild on his Aprilia and I'm like "WTF?! The guy is a front runner at the club rounds, surely he should be in the main event?" Maybe we need to make Clubman's for Clubman's racers or non-qualifiers, not anybody who's ego is too fragile to race against the best, thereby forcing more bikes into the main feild.

Harking back to my favourite soap box I still think that the main problem is the lack of incentive for 600 riders to step up to the big bikes. Thou' riders are effectively punished at club level because for an extra 10 bucks a 600 or SV650 or pre-89 400 rider gets twice as much racing and/or qualifying time in alternative classes. Why would you want to step up and get less racing? The situation needs to be addressed with a logical progression put in place that encourages our top riders to move into the top classes.

I watched some 4 wheeled racing this weekend on TV and I was amazed at the money on show. There were school kids racing $50,000 Formula Fords.....lots of 'em! Same for the late model production cars and Mini Challenge cars with youngsters somehow fronting up with lots of cash and lots of sponsors for what is a fairly boring spectacle.

Even allowing for a biased perspective bike racing is at least as good a spectacle if not better yet we struggle to get people and sponsors involved.

Juggling classes, and introducing production spec bikes won't help us tap into the pool of sponsors that is out there ready and willing to throw cash about (as proven by the cars) neither will down-speccing our bikes to remove us further from international classes and competition. The problem with money in our sport is one of promotion and marketing not whether lil' Abe rides an SV650 or a standard/modified 600 as his next bike.

I here what you are saying slowpoke BUT, our grids were full years back when the true cost of a production bike was alot cheaper to race on, and we produced a lot of world talented riders from the production bikes, SO why is the production class not going help?

RE Sponsors, yes the bike scene is a lot smaller han the car scene, as EVERY one drives a car!

Re Sponsors again

If you really want to race seriously, you WILL get another job, borrow the money, do it what it takes to get out there, or just get on here and bleet about how hard it is to get a sponsor, when the chances are, most of the bleeters, would have no idea what ROI means, or even how to communicate with the potentuall sponsors, but because they have a set of leathers and race bike, they feel they shuld be given some one elses money to play with NO WAY- Go and prove yoyrself, then ask for sponsors

[quallman1234]

Pre 05 bikes won't work. You could pour money at a 05 GSXR600 and be as quick as the new ones.
Money limitations are too hard too police.

Something like how the R6 cup is ran/used to be (obviously allow more than just one type of bike). Would be the go.

[CHOPPA]

Was thinking about the Manfield round mate....................but then I checked this years times.............ouch............my times would put me at the very back hahaa. Maybe I could put an SV650 sticker on, then I might do ok

Just do it bro, even my times put me at the back but i figure racing fast dudes is gonna make me fast, theres always gonna be someone at the back if everyone has that attitude we would end up with only 1 rider.....

[driftn]

I think pre 00 750s should be allowed to race with the 600's my self as they are no faster than a new 600. Or just a class for pre 1998 that would be good.

[Tony.OK]

Dude, why are people so scared to do their local round of the Nats?
So what if you're slower than the fast guys. So what!
It's a great way for you to learn their techniques by following them in practices and hopefully in the races. If they can go around a corner at x speed, then why cant you?? It gives you one hell of a boost to your own riding and belief of your own limits. Its great, and you get to hang out with them and ask them questions. They're not gods, they are approachable, and they will give you great advice. The last thing they want to see is their sport die off 'cause no newbies are coming through the ranks. They will help you. Believe me. It also boosts the numbers in the unfortunately dwindling classes.

Scrivy

Just do it bro, even my times put me at the back but i figure racing fast dudes is gonna make me fast, theres always gonna be someone at the back if everyone has that attitude we would end up with only 1 rider.....

Cheers guys.........very good points, hadn't thought about it like that

[Robert Taylor]

Talking SBK's the fields will be smallish anyway I think, with the Vic series if the 600's weren't cross entered there wouldn't have been many SBK's on the grid(8-10). Add in the 115% rule and that takes away 4 or 5 of those.

Would be kinda nice if some of the imports spots were filled by locals but I guess its about winning not charity at the end of the day.

Wonder if they'll end up running the SBK's and 600's together if numbers fall too much?

Let me clarify about ''import riders'' for the upcoming Road Race Nationals

Suzuki NZ 66.67% local riders

Yamaha NZ 50% local riders

Honda NZ 100% local riders

In general running a disparity of bike sizes / speed together is dangerous. Although we have a worldwide and cyclical economic recession that is not reason enough in itself to get spooked and try to reform the classes by trying to bring the costs down. That very often has negative consequences and can often actually increase costs. Lack of time precludes me repeating a whole plethora of reasons why a ''true production class'' is actually fraught with issues, particularly with larger capacity bikes that much much more so challenge their tyres and suspension. In the upcoming issue of BRM magazine will be a letter replying to Wayne Lists support for a basically bone stock production formula. Suffice to say, if Wayne and others of like mind were actually involved at the coalface their opinions wouldnt be so black and white and over-simplistic.
And in deference to those who think otherwise the current road race commissioner has done a very well balanced job with the class structures, from a position of experience and a very very thorough understanding of the issues.
Others have stated in this thread about how much money is evident in car racing. I concur totally with that as our suspension work also involves car racing. In that vein I think a lot of the answer is in attracting money to the sport, rather than trying to retrench. For those on tighter budgets we have less expensive classes such as pro-twins and 125s.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

I think pre 00 750s should be allowed to race with the 600's my self as they are no faster than a new 600. Or just a class for pre 1998 that would be good.

Good idea!!
lotsa early ninties "super bikes" out there going CHEAP. just fettle with suspention,brakes and fit good tyres and your racing!

[Robert Taylor]

Good idea!!
lotsa early ninties "super bikes" out there going CHEAP. just fettle with suspention,brakes and fit good tyres and your racing!

Post classics are the home for older bikes, the Nationals are for late model bikes and the countrys most elite riders. I make no apologies if that in any way sounds arrogant, its not because I gratefully accept business from lots of good people with older bikes. Just merely stating the obvious. As I have said previously there are other cost controlled classes. To keep ad hoc advocating more classes or to advocate ill thought bastardisation of the existing classes is a nonsense in a country with a small population. Although there is merit in fine tuning of feeder classes and perhaps a ''privateers cup'' within existing sports production classes.
I take issue with a number of things that Shaun advocates but I do pick up on what he intimated about doing the hard yards to support your racing. I do wonder if this country has at large gone soft and too many expect everything given to them on a plate

[Mishy]

As I have said previously there are other cost controlled classes. To keep ad hoc advocating more classes or to advocate ill thought bastardisation of the existing classes is a nonsense in a country with a small population.

In my opinion that a very important point Robert. There are few enough riders to fill the classes we have, so creating more classes just robs peter to pay paul, and leaves everybody short. I am fully behind the Protwins idea, because I see that this gives a cost effective class for people to start in, while still giving the chance to learn the skills that will be required on the faster bikes. If we can get more interest in the protwins idea, then I would hope that we will see that feed through into the bigger class in time.
On another subject, I also wonder why so few people go to race at their their local national meeting ? When I started racing in the early 90's it was what you did - turned up at all the north island meetings to race in F3 and get lapped by Tony McMurdo and Ernie Cudby while you learned the ropes. It was always a blast to just race against other guys in the best conditions of the year, and in time, we all got better and some ended up as frontrunners themselves.
The current Road Race Commisioner is diong a great job with balancing all the demands we all put on him, we could do with a few more bums on bikes though !

[Shaun P]

Re Sponsors again

If you really want to race seriously, you WILL get another job, borrow the money, do it what it takes to get out there, or just get on here and bleet about how hard it is to get a sponsor, when the chances are, most of the bleeters, would have no idea what ROI means, or even how to communicate with the potentuall sponsors, but because they have a set of leathers and race bike, they feel they shuld be given some one elses money to play with NO WAY- Go and prove yoyrself, then ask for sponsors

Return On Investment? A hard one to quantify, but with a bit of thought and effort can be rewarding for sponsors in more ways than one.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

Post classics are the home for older bikes, the Nationals are for late model bikes and the countrys most elite riders. I make no apologies if that in any way sounds arrogant, its not because I gratefully accept business from lots of good people with older bikes. Just merely stating the obvious.

I agree.....no, I really do.
yes, I know this is KB. no-one is supposed to share the same opinion right? haha
yes, the older bike classes best kept for club racing. thats fine by me. bike racing needs to be built from the club level up anyhoo

[CHOPPA]

Return On Investment? A hard one to quantify, but with a bit of thought and effort can be rewarding for sponsors in more ways than one.

[lostinflyz]

In my opinion that a very important point Robert. There are few enough riders to fill the classes we have, so creating more classes just robs peter to pay paul, and leaves everybody short. I am fully behind the Protwins idea, because I see that this gives a cost effective class for people to start in, while still giving the chance to learn the skills that will be required on the faster bikes. If we can get more interest in the protwins idea, then I would hope that we will see that feed through into the bigger class in time.
On another subject, I also wonder why so few people go to race at their their local national meeting ? When I started racing in the early 90's it was what you did - turned up at all the north island meetings to race in F3 and get lapped by Tony McMurdo and Ernie Cudby while you learned the ropes. It was always a blast to just race against other guys in the best conditions of the year, and in time, we all got better and some ended up as frontrunners themselves.
The current Road Race Commisioner is diong a great job with balancing all the demands we all put on him, we could do with a few more bums on bikes though !

one of the main reasons alotta guys dont run nationals i think is cost. talking 160 bucks for f3 compared to 60 for clubmans (dont forget transponder hire). im happy as hell to be lapped (every lap) but im not gonna pay 100 bucks more for the privelidge. and im gutted about it but id rather do all 3 rounds in clubmans than struggle through only 2 in f3.

pro twins is a good idea but its still not all that economic. obviously racing is never free (or even remotely cheap) but if we always expect new classes to need new bikes we will never have that many on the grids. Down south here the biggest grids are in streetstock and there ain't no new bikes out there. ok so i know its also the cheapest (and by a rather far too long way) but its not brand new 150 cbr's or 250 hyosungs. its cheap, easy to repair bikes, and no one really complains about them having a few years under their belt.

Somewhere at some point a place needs to be found for the older bikes. the amount of guys with 01 or 02 (let alone the million and one 90's) bikes and no where to race them is a bit stupid really. while its all good and well to have the best bikes and the best riders at nationals, which is right i agree, there needs to be some good racing and a decent field to make it worthwhile. and if that means letting in older worked 750's or toyed '00 superbikes then im all for it. in the end we all benefit from a better and larger race field size, so whats the harm??