National level race classes

[Robert Taylor]

Good effort, vast explanation, even though it is not the 70's as you say, could you explain how all the riders/racers of that time, managed to learn how to race a bike safely and as succesfully as lots of them did, using the STD stuff, and Springs, and Oil only as there mods?

I believe Ive explained this more than thoroughly in other media ( at least ) Maybe in here also but Im too tired to dredge at present or to launch into a further lengthy parrallell to ''War and Peace'' Check out immediate back issues of BRM magazine and an upcoming one that replies to a poorly researched argument by Wayne List.
Please be assured that I am not wholly knocking a controlled ( lower horsepower )class, but in all fairness am pointing out the technical limitations that are not so obvious to so many.

[FROSTY:Me]

Just to clarify this Robert So you are saying that we in NZ race in temperatures people in the northern hemasphere dont race in.
Temperatures in Taupo diddn't actually get cold did they??

[enigma51]

Im yet to see a an average rider fit ohlins/WP/Penske get it setup for him or her and go 2 - 3 seconds faster around a track.


Shaun did some work on my stock suspension (Few clicks this way and that way) and I didnt get much faster but got better feedback from the bike and defintly better tyre wear........


Now lets get back on topic about frosty's post.

[Shaun]

I believe Ive explained this more than thoroughly in other media ( at least ) Maybe in here also but Im too tired to dredge at present or to launch into a further lengthy parrallell to ''War and Peace'' Check out immediate back issues of BRM magazine and an upcoming one that replies to a poorly researched argument by Wayne List.
Please be assured that I am not wholly knocking a controlled ( lower horsepower )class, but in all fairness am pointing out the technical limitations that are not so obvious to so many.

I see where you are coming from Rob, BUT I am also doing the same as you in a strange way with this thread, I am telling people that STD does work OK?

It is deffinately NOT as good as Ohlins Penske etc, but the std stuff can be modified Springs Oil, and this alone will improve the ride 50% I believe as a rider myself

[scrivy]

er..... can I say I've adjusted my suspension 3 times in the last 20 years.......
Still set lap records, still slid everywhere.......

As for riding to the limit on standard gear, I used to get off my GSX1229 with good gear and race tyres, and onto my X5 200cc on ching shin tyres and the worst suspension on the world, and go full tit around Baypark on cold tyres. You learnt to ride hard to the limitations of your gear. Never crashed the phucker either, but had the thing at 30 degree sideways all the time!!
Eh Sidecar Bob!!

Having old standard shit gear may mean you can ride it over its intended limits, but it does hone your skills too!!! And best bit is, its BLOODY FUN!!

[sidecar bob]

I can well remember my Swedish namesake Rob looking at his computer screen at three very distinctingly different damping curves and shaking his head in disbelief because his assigned rider ( Haga ) could not tell / feel the difference between any of them.

Similarly, i cant understand why someone spends 40k plus on a 1098 or any other leading brand of superbike & gets the forks re valved the following week.
Are Ducati, or any other top end manufacturer that far off the mark that an average road rider finds a bike of that calibre flawed? or do people need to do this more to gain false confidence in their abilities, & can they actually tell the difference before & after?
A guy was telling me a while back that he needed to have the forks on his fireblade re valved, i asked him what grade of oil he had in them & he had no idea.

[Shaun]

Just to clarify this Robert So you are saying that we in NZ race in temperatures people in the northern hemasphere dont race in.
Temperatures in Taupo diddn't actually get cold did they??

Taupo Track temp is BAD! The ground stays very cold there, even in summer! It is similar down in Invercargill RE track temp, it is also very cold, which helps to destroy your tyres.

I have always gone up by 1 kg on the rear spring, to keep my tyres alive down there, and Taupo is the Very same.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Robert Taylor
I can well remember my Swedish namesake Rob looking at his computer screen at three very distinctingly different damping curves and shaking his head in disbelief because his assigned rider ( Haga ) could not tell / feel the difference between any of them.



Perhaps they need me as a test rider for them

I remember being able to tell my technician exactually what was going on, ( and he was very impressed I seem to recall) Even before the Dyno arrived

[scrivy]

I tell Sidecar Bob if my tyre pressures down by 1 PSI...............
Honest.........

[svr]

Good effort, vast explanation, even though it is not the 70's as you say, could you explain how all the riders/racers of that time, managed to learn how to race a bike safely and as succesfully as lots of them did, using the STD stuff, and Springs, and Oil only as there mods?

Exactly.
Surely the problem is that we for some reason we are not attracting / producing decent numbers of young riders who can road race motorcycles at their performance limit (even if that is relatively low) i.e. the fundamental skill set of road racing, which has to be learnt early.
It's of no use to say `well, you kids just need to work harder and save up so you can ride technically superior equipment', that's just reducing the talent available.

[Sketchy_Racer]

After riding on a bike with ohlins cartridge forks over standard forks id never go back, i understand when riders talk about this 'feel' thing you can really push the front and feel the grip of the tyres better then the vague feeling you get from standard suspension. I could possibly go as fast on standard stuff but i wouldnt have the same confidence id just be relying on trust....

I dont like spending the money anymore then anyone else but i do like having good competitive gear, i choose to put the money in and scrimp in everything else in life cause at the moment thats my whole life...

Cheers for that man, It's the sort of first hand experience from a rider I want to hear about.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Some perspective and please excuse a little anger for having to expend time elaborating at length.........

Snip.....


Sketchy, I am cursing you for expending so much time explaining all this but also thank you as I think Ive been able to offer a yet more plausible case why with higher powered machines oem suspension and theIr interaction with tyres is a folly and fraught with issues.

Sorry for making you expend so much of your precious time for that Robert, but I really appreciate the insight you've given me there. Very interesting and valid points.

Cheers,

-Glen

[Sketchy_Racer]

Exactly.
Surely the problem is that we for some reason we are not attracting / producing decent numbers of young riders who can road race motorcycles at their performance limit (even if that is relatively low) i.e. the fundamental skill set of road racing, which has to be learnt early.
It's of no use to say `well, you kids just need to work harder and save up so you can ride technically superior equipment', that's just reducing the talent available.

Agreed.

I believe we have the calibre of young (define young?) riders out there at the moment that just haven't received the support they need to get anywhere with it.
I am all for the motto "If you really want something you will work for it" But that is only applicable to a certain point.
It is unreasonable for a 16 year old to have to try and fund a race bike on hit own. A 16 year old isn't even allowed the responsibility to buy alcohol but there is a responsibility put on him that he needs to fine 15k a year to race? It can be done, but with the general work ethic of a 16 year old, it quickly becomes "To hard basket".
Even at 18 (and using a situation similar to my own that I can understand) A teen has moved out of home, working as an apprentice, earning apprentice wages. Not only has he got all the responsibilities of day to day living, but Also supposed to find the money to fund his/her racing aspirations. All a bit far fetched to do it on your own. I do believe that even with support any young racer should be putting everything they can into the sport that others have invested thousands into.

I think that given out population, NZ has quite a sufficient backing, think of all the money that goes into motorcycle racing in NZ, I highly doubt that very many investing parties would receive back what they put in?

[roogazza]

Sorry Sketchy, but you have to buy a bike (or borrow one) and get results or do something flash to get noticed like everyone else !
I know its tough, but thats how it is ! There's probably a lot of old farts that would agree ?
You made a start and looked good in the rain recently, now carry it on at maybe some points rounds. Good luck. Gaz.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Sorry Sketchy, but you have to buy a bike (or borrow one) and get results or do something flash to get noticed like everyone else !
I know its tough, but thats how it is ! There's probably a lot of old farts that would agree ?
You made a start and looked good in the rain recently, now carry it on at maybe some points rounds. Good luck. Gaz.

Yes mate, I agree 100% I suppose those that show some real talent are the ones that get somewhere.
Thanks for the good luck, I hope to continue improving!