Fast and Safe

[2_SL0]

That is a excellent site. Congrats.

[spudchucka]

Two reasons. First, it will indicate what your opinions are worth.

I was just giving you the traditional wind up that people always seem to get in this place. If you want an indication of what my posts are worth then do a search and read all 1447 of them, opps 1448 now.

Second, it might save me the usual minimum 30 day wait to obtain facts from government agencies. (If, as Lou implies, you have internal access to them.)

I don't see why I should be supplying you with a short cut around the ugly streets of bureaucracy.

On the latter track, it would be very helpful if you could explain in detail how policy on the rigid enforcement of speed limits is developed

Old Lou seems to think that I'm a cop in the position of policy making but I'm not, I'm just a dumb constable so how policy is developed isn't something I have anything to do with.

and transmitted to individual police officers.

Cops have bosses who like to tell them what to do. Don't we all? Well most of us at least.

BTW I haven't had time to have a proper read of your web site as yet. I'm sure there are many relevant points on there and I'll be interested to see what "facts" you are promoting.

[spudchucka]

The charts show that there was a very constant long term trend (ie a straight line sloping downwards) from about 1993 to the end of 2000. Then the highway patrol was introduced with rigid enforcement of speed limits, and it all turned to custard.

So are you implying that rigid targeted enforcement contributes to higher crash rates? Or are you just cashing in on the fact that the road toll spiked from 404 in 2002 to 461 in 2003. Ignoring the fact that in 2000 when the Higway Patrol was introduced the toll was 462 and that in 2004 the toll was 435.

It seems that the road toll has stayed fairly constant so far this centuary and hasn't actually turned to custard as you imply. Perhaps the actual "fact" is that the road toll has simply reached a plateau and is now at a level that only individual drivers can possibly make a difference to.

[Alan Wilkinson]

So what are you told to do regarding speed limit enforcement, and who gives the orders?

[Alan Wilkinson]

So are you implying that rigid targeted enforcement contributes to higher crash rates? Or are you just cashing in on the fact that the road toll spiked from 404 in 2002 to 461 in 2003. Ignoring the fact that in 2000 when the Higway Patrol was introduced the toll was 462 and that in 2004 the toll was 435.

It seems that the road toll has stayed fairly constant so far this centuary and hasn't actually turned to custard as you imply. Perhaps the actual "fact" is that the road toll has simply reached a plateau and is now at a level that only individual drivers can possibly make a difference to.

Take a look at these charts:
http://www.fastandsafe.org/site.aspx...rcement/charts

Fatalities have not been affected (for better or worse) by the hundreds of thousands of speeding tickets issued from 2001 on. But injuries are far worse. The policy has been just a disastrous failure. What police district are you in?

[Paul in NZ]

Guys!

This is an open public forum for New Zealand motorcyclists. Alan, with the greatest respect, you don't seem to be one of those while Spud does. You have your own website which is very interesting and doubtless give pause to a great deal of thought.

Having said that, I think it is bloody unfair to start asking these sorts of questions of an ordinary copper in such a public forum. He can't really win can he? He has a job to do and has limited scope to discuss and act.

Your opinions ARE valued and are definately insightful but this is taking a bit of a funny turn methinks and I belive people better bugger off to their respective corners before this gets really tedious.

Just my opinion.... But I know what would happen if I divulged the inner operations of my place of work in such a public forum! Apart from getting the sack I'd be arrested for murder for boring people to death!

Paul N

[spudchucka]

So what are you told to do regarding speed limit enforcement, and who gives the orders?

We get a DPR, (directed patrol report) that indicates what areas are to be targeted over your next shift rotation period. We get allocated "hours" of various types of traffic duties, drink driving, restraints, general traffic behaviour and speed are the usual suspects. We also get given targets relating to criminal suspects that are believed to be active at the time.

At the end of the shift period you return the DPR with how many traffic hours, arrests, bail checks, hotel visits, firearms surrendered etc etc you have done over that period.

Its not an order, its a direction that indicates where you as a constable should be concentrating your efforts. The reasoning behind the DPR is usualy the responsibility of the local Intel Section, who collates information relating to criminal activity, suspects movements, problem areas, problem times, traffic crash black spots, areas that are generating a lot of traffic complaints etc etc etc.

If I don't achieve the allocated traffic hours then its just stiff shit for the bosses as far as I'm concerned. I don't give a rats arse about trying to achieve traffic hours and ticketing every poor sod that breaks the speed limit by 11kph. If I find traffic offences while I'm patroling that I consider worthy of targeting then I'll deal with it, otherwise its usually a flash of the lights or a friendly reminder over the PA. But then I don't work in the traffic section of police and I can account for my time in other areas of police work, which HP cops can't do.

[Alan Wilkinson]

Well, Paul, I think it is a bit of a funny turn that a few polite questions can be so much more threatening than a bunch of insults.

And if you think it's boring, you don't have to read it.

But we might even find out if the police really do have ticket quotas and if so where they come from. Or whether they have the integrity to oppose policies that fail to do anything useful, cause a number of people to lose their livelihoods unjustly and cause many decent people to be treated like criminals in their own country?

And I think the topic is relevant to motorcyclists. I didn't start it.

[Waylander]

But if you joined this site for the sole purpose of advertising your site or trying to gain information that you probably should be privalaged to then whats the point? You're not gonna be helping us by getting one of our number fired.

[spudchucka]

Take a look at these charts:
http://www.fastandsafe.org/site.aspx...rcement/charts

Fatalities have not been affected (for better or worse) by the hundreds of thousands of speeding tickets issued from 2001 on. But injuries are far worse. The policy has been just a disastrous failure. What police district are you in?

Could it not equally be a response to the publics willingness to kill and injure themselves in traffic crashes and subsequently police ruthlessly target driving behaviour because the general driving public are just too thick to keep themselves on the correct side of the road?

Perhaps the policy is a failure, I don't really care, but as long as people keep wiping themselves and others away on the road the policy isn't about to change anytime soon.

Your charts are too full of little dots and lines, do you have your data on a spread sheet?

I'm in central district.

[Alan Wilkinson]

Thanks Spudchucka. I've been told all instructions to police on traffic enforcement originate at the district level, rather than from police headquarters. I found that a bit hard to believe, but maybe you can confirm that?

That makes me wonder how national policies could be directed.

[speedpro]

And I think the topic is relevant to motorcyclists. I didn't start it.

That would be me, and going by the 574 views in a day and a half it seems to be of some interest to this motorcycling community. I think we all have essentially the same view of the LTSA/Govt policies regarding speed and enforcement on our roads. I personally find Alan's interpretations more honest, and I'm not alone.

[Alan Wilkinson]

Your charts are too full of little dots and lines, do you have your data on a spread sheet?

Yes, it's all available on the website. Click on the "data" menu item on the left of the chart page.

[Alan Wilkinson]

In the Central police district, police are now issuing 6500 speed tickets per month instead of 3000 and there are now 100 traffic injuries a month whereas if the trend prior to rigid speed limit enforcement had continued there would have been about 50.

Are you happy about working for an organisation like that?

[speedpro]

Are you happy about working for an organisation like that?

That sort of question doesn't really help the "debate". The company I used to work for I used to have a few problems with some of the directions I was given. It never really did any harm to anyone but I would have preferred to have been completely up-front and honest. The only thing I was a bit unhappy about with the company was the commute each day. 26km on AK motorways each day.