Water cooling and unlimited carbs for 125s

[Skunk]

I've ridden that "old KV" in a 2 hour years ago. ... ...I don't remember it being tempermental or particularly peaky.

I stand corrected - third hand info...

[F5 Dave]

Funny how people think my 50 is fastest bike in welly. It’s only fast once in motion (don’t slow down). For example in the weekend I was comprehensively dragged at the starts by not only an FXR but also a Long-chin. How embarrassing!

As far as allowing 125cc watercooled, hmm, let’s think about this. Nigel’s bike is a sleeved down RGV. How fast do you think it would be if it was 25% bigger?
RGV puts out say 55hp at the rear in road trim. 1/2 that (not that simple but you get the idea) is 27.5hp. Then tune it. Let's dismiss that shall we?

The 80MX idea is bad as they get ridden until junior totally shrapnel’s them, so you’d have to buy a going one & from there just start substituting newer & newer engines until it is totally expensive & all other bikes are uncompetitive.

28mm might be better for the aircooleds.

I fear no 4 stroke.

[Skunk]

Funny how people think my 50 is fastest bike in welly.28mm might be better for the aircooleds.

Fast - yes. Quick - no. Well ridden - yep.

[speedpro]

how bout we drop the cc for 4 strokes to 140cc again
instead of letting 2 strokes get bigger carbs
or an unlimited class
same cc rating but unlimited mods to engine no rules on carbs etc
lets see how good the 2 smoers realy are

About the 140cc thing - it either makes a lot of work to allow FXR riders to legally compete or a lot of cheating. It makes no sense to make it difficult to use pretty well the only modern bike available for bucket racing.

The other bit you brought up - read the rules! You also need to check up on just how fast the old school 100cc 2-stroke F4 buckets were. The "old KV" is a good example and I seriously doubt it has had any performance enhancing work done on it in 15 years. My old #6 was an air cooled 100cc bucket which made a healthy 22.5rwhp. I've seen Nigel's RS/RG 100cc watercooled bucket produce 27.5rwhp on Brett Robert's dyno. The "dark side" has a slight advantage on tight tracks with better drive in certain places but on a faster track a "good" 2-stroke will clean them up. It does seem that the dark side's 150cc limit is a good balance from the performance point of view. Pete Sale has even thought of ressurrecting his CB125 reasoning that the extra capacity would allow it to be competitive without being so fragile.

[Skunk]

My feeling is the 100cc watercooled is equal to the 150 four stroke but the aircooled 125 needs a slightly bigger carb in these times. Yes it's possible to make a fast 125/100 two stroke but who is when the 150 is sitting there ready to go? Not many - and generally only the 'old schoolers'. By encouraging the two strokes the 'art' will not be lost.

[nudemetalz]

Funny how people think my 50 is fastest bike in welly. It’s only fast once in motion (don’t slow down). For example in the weekend I was comprehensively dragged at the starts by not only an FXR but also a Long-chin. How embarrassing!

And why can't a Long-Chin be good off the mark.......

[Bren_chch]

a fast 100cc 2stroke will always beat a fast 150cc 4stroke

I think the rules are perfect! putting a 28mm carb on a well built 2stroke 125cc motor will destroy every 100cc 2 stroke. hmm actually i've got a 125 engine here, yeah i vote for 28mm carbs!

[nudemetalz]

I think the rules are perfect! putting a 28mm carb on a well built 2stroke 125cc motor will destroy every 100cc 2 stroke.

That's exactly right.

If the rules do change, then I'm changing to a 125 2-stroke as well because the Loncin 145 will be so outclassed .

[F5 Dave]

a fast 100cc 2stroke will always beat a fast 150cc 4stroke

Yes. But a Kart track does make it a different prospect a bit.

I think the rules are perfect! putting a 28mm carb on a well built 2stroke 125cc motor will destroy every 100cc 2 stroke. hmm actually i've got a 125 engine here, yeah i vote for 28mm carbs!

Hmm, hard to say, carb size, if you wanted to build an utterly grotesque 100 you’d bang on a 34mm carb (why not? RS125s run 39-41mm).

Mathematically it works out that a 24 has ½ the area of a 34. Bear in mind that is for a 100, a 125 could live with a bigger carb.

A 28 is 2/3 the size of a 34. Seems a little fairer.

Maybe a bit of sour grapes, my 125 I gave up on as I didn’t think it came up to as high potential as I thought it should have, so I blame the carb a bit. I should have tried a 28 just for comparison, but I didn’t have the time. DC’s Big bore MB 120 or whatever does show you can make a fast 125 though.

Could be the engine I chose wasn't the right direction. The ports were a little weird. I mean it would have killed Tony's same engine 150/125 I would have thought, but it's hard for me to compare as I've only really run my 125 at Taupo (exploded in practise at BOB in '07). But was revving too high for not enough go to continue development. & it had a nasty habit of expiring, some of that was my fault.

[SHELRACING]

I'm with Buddah, stinky two strokes should be banned or at least subject to emission controls

BUT seriously, The two strokes at Mt Welly and Taumarunui the FXR's seem fairly evenly matched. I've had some great battles with TZ350 and PUMBA recently ( Two FZR's and a GP125 ) all 3 bikes had their own advantages and Disadvantages.
At the end of the day it was so close that it was down to who had the biggest Kahoonas....

That makes great racing. You don't have to win to be having a great race...

Leave the rules as they are, go hard, do your best, have fun

Ban all two strokers from bucket racing.....they smell (so do the bikes), they destroy the enviroment (not like my MotoFXR, which emits daisys out the exhaust) and the odd one bloody fast.

I vote it aint broke........

As a side note, i wouldn't mided a visit to aussie for a trans Tasman Challenge with superlites...... we get to keep our slicks!

[Pumba]

BUT seriously, The two strokes at Mt Welly and Taumarunui the FXR's seem fairly evenly matched. I've had some great battles with TZ350 and PUMBA recently ( Two FZR's and a GP125 ) all 3 bikes had their own advantages and Disadvantages.
At the end of the day it was so close that it was down to who had the biggest Kahoonas....

Still not sure if I am comfortable you commenting on the size of my kahoonas, but seeing how I won the weekend the must be the bigesst

[koba]

What I like about the rules as they are is that they cater for so many people and approaches.
I have an NSR frame that (one day) is getting a bucket engine.
I can go LOTS of different ways with such a machine and I like that.

I also like that anyone I know who isn't into the tinkering and fucking about so much can just go and buy an FXR, nylon it up and go for it without having to worry about developing it heaps.

I have chosen the smoky path after seeing the "old KV" in action but after riding an "old CB125" last weekend I also have eyes for a tight tourque tuned 4stroke for really twisting tracks.....

This whole situation is fostering development of a broad range of tuning skills in the youf of today. (I hope anyway)
While I'm not THAT young its still better than nothing.

Not too sure about the 125 28mm carb thing as I dunno enough about the 125 path.

[nudemetalz]

Actually I have to admit, Tex on his GP125 & on my Longchin were fairly evenly matched at Kaitoke, although it may have been more to do with our riding then anything else.

[Buckets4Me]

About the 140cc thing - it either makes a lot of work to allow FXR riders to legally compete or a lot of cheating. It makes no sense to make it difficult to use pretty well the only modern bike available for bucket racing.

thats the point make it expensive to run an fxr
my job here is done

no more fxr's

[Kickaha]

Actually Skunk while you're getting the carb ruling changed can you get the Fuel ruling changed so we can run Methanol in single cam, two valve four strokes