Kiwibiker Mentors - Opinion

[Headbanger]

Sorry Nasty is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.

Epic fail.

[Tank]

The current mentor system was fully developed before I even knew of its existance. I commented to a few at the top of the food chain that "gee I'd like to be involved with that" an got told that, a.) it was already set in concrete, and b.) that I didn't have the required experience.

Steve

I would add you dont have the right attitude either.

Okies, with all the stupid antics happening to bikers from non-el-thinko cagers etc, I think a useful skill to have would be "How to put a good boot-sized dent in a car door while under way on a motorcyle."

DB

Heh I thought I was late for my R test (clock on bike was fast) everyone on the road I passed musta wondered what the fuck a noisy 650 vtwin was doing passing everyone at 140k with a fucken learner plate on.

DB

I must say the Mentors that I have met have been fantastic and I've recommend 'the program' to many others - I certainly believe it helped me tremendously.

But the above is not the kind of behavior mentors should be encouraging. My 2c is that you have to have a 'reasonably' stable online persona as well - else the noob riders will actually take this kind of rubbish on board also.

[Katman]

My 2c is that you have to have a 'reasonably' stable online persona as well

Well, I've never been that drunk that I've actually fallen off my chair.

[OutForADuck]

Wow I am amazed at how this is such a passionate subject.

I am not a mentor on this site but I, like most more experienced riders I know love to mentor, to assist others in learning to be fast and safe. We all take a different view on what that means, just as the people being mentored take a different view on what they want to learn. None of us expect our advice to be taken as gospel or people to not judge for themselves what was good and reliable advice.

Should I mentor? Do I have experience that “might” help newer riders progress, stay safe and enjoy their riding more, should I still expect them to take responsibility for their skills progression and life’s risks.

Of course I should, as should every rider with something to pass on to others. The issue that KB have addressed is the confusion amongst new riders on who to ask for advice as they are beginning to judge and assess who to listen to.

Good on KB for trying to encourage better riding by encouraging better skills transfer, not only might it make for a lot of people who are safer but I am sure it will make for a lot of people who enjoy their riding a lot more!!!

Let’s hope that they also get that the term Mentor doesn’t mean perfect or capable of teaching them in every way or more importantly removing from them the responsibility of judging what advice they take and apply to their riding anymore than it should mean to those that have something to offer that they are lesser valued or should not mentor.

We are a community of motorcycling, lets grow as a community and all help each other to be fast, safe, full of fun and skilled in as many ways as possible.

After all we are all here to get more out of one of our passions by sharing with others that passion!!!!

[Katman]

I would like to think that none of the appointed mentors have a desire to teach new riders how to be fast on the road.

Smooth - yes. Safe - yes. Considerate - yes.

The implications and probable result of trying to teach others to be fast on the road is for further two wheeled carnage.

[CookMySock]

To be concise, my only objection has been a small number of mentors appointed who have acted in a disgusting manner to other KB members. I cannot imagine why I might approach them for advice.

But hey, many bikers are assholes, and maybe thats just the way of it.

I don't question the quality of the advice at all - I am persuaded they would not have been appointed at all if their methodology was dangerously wrong - I just would be embarrassed to approach them.

On a personal note, I'm disappointed to not be a mentor, but I don't have anything but basic experience, so I am happy enough with that. ish. I still get to mentor my kids, so maybe I'll have it out of my system by then.


Steve

[OutForADuck]

I would like to think that none of the appointed mentors have a desire to teach new riders how to be fast on the road.

Smooth - yes. Safe - yes. Considerate - yes.

The implications and probable result of trying to teach others to be fast on the road is for further two wheeled carnage.

Please don't mis-read my intentions. FAST doesn't mean dangerous or for that matter breaking laws. I have passed the UK Police Class A riders and in that you MUST be fast through or fail. They call it "Making progress" if you can't safely get through traffic faster than a car then they argue you are not skilled enough. They also teach "filtering" which is contraversal yet they are regarded as the highest level of motorcycle street training.

Safe is as relative a term as fast. Skills and not taking unassessed risks are one of the greatest things I have learnt, but I accept I am taking a risk ( and I accept this personally) every time I sit on my bike!!!

[Katman]

Please don't mis-read my intentions.

Yes, I realised after I posted that your actual words were "fast and safe".

However, I still feel that any accelerated method of teaching a new rider to be fast on the road is asking for trouble.

[Jantar]

.....Safe is as relative a term as fast. Skills and not taking unassessed risks are one of the greatest things I have learnt, but I accept I am taking a risk ( and I accept this personally) every time I sit on my bike!!!

Exactly. This is again one of the reasons why mentors are not expected to be instructors. A mentor is there to encourage riders to develop their skills in a safe manner. Riding is always a risk, but so is life in general. Lets just make it enjoyable while lessening those risks.

[MSTRS:Me]

Yes, I realised after I posted that your actual words were "fast and safe".

We all take different meaning from the written word...
I understood him to mean an increased average speed, due to smoother riding transitions.

[Quasievil]

Im still a mentor as I give advise regulary to those that ask, and on the road I think Im a strong role model, however I dont think Its necersary to have an endorsement from KB to do it, nor do I feel that I need to outwardly advertise myself on KB as being available for mentoring with a great big tag "ME" to highlight the KB perception that I .........may be a better rider than the others........... because so and so said so, and so and so backed up so and so on that point...........

I think the processes of nomination, are so obviously floored that we may well have "mentors" that in actual fact arent really such great mentors after all, perhaps we have some mentors that can easily rally up support and therefore by default become a mentor, the process it seems to me was more of a polictical election than a investigation pior to an approval, for instance, there was some negative remarks about me becoming a mentor (unbelieveable as it sounds) but where was the investigation ? I wasnt asked about said comments, is it true, did you really do that ? explain this please................nope nought! on that basis alone the process is floored.

I really think that KB doesnt actually need to be doing this, I think there are plenty of people around quite capable of offering advise on a one to one basis (thats always been the way in the history of motorcycling)
without the need for a systemized process for a mentor programme.

In saying all that, I know alot of people put a bit of time into this and I congratulate them on the efforts, though I reckon on reflection we might have organised a system that didnt need organising.

[Katman]

nor do I feel that I need to outwardly advertise myself on KB as being available for mentoring with a great big tag "ME"

You should have just done what I did - collect a few infraction points.

(All right - maybe more than just a few).

[ManDownUnder]

Any questions about mentors should be adressable by a peer review system per the scientific community. Not easy to set up but it's a proven method for improving such a fluid groups of contributors, each with their related but different areas of expertise.

I personally favour the group training approach with 5+ old hands all contributing to a group training session. That worked quite well.

Those learning got to see a variety of styles in action and if they wanted more one on one time with someone they trusted then it could be arranged.

[Jantar]

....

I personally favour the group training approach with 5+ old hands all contributing to a group training session. That worked quite well.

.....

But that is training, not mentoring. Offering training is where the potential for legal liability comes into play. Mentors are not all qualified trainers (although some are). Mentors can advise, but not teach.

[ManDownUnder]

But that is training, not mentoring. Offering training is where the potential for legal liability comes into play. Mentors are not all qualified trainers (although some are). Mentors can advise, but not teach.

How bout we go for "teaching" then. It all sounds like verbal masturbation to me to be honest. Group mentoring?

I'd have thought legal responsibility comes in if there is an exchange of consideration (i.e. payment in cash or kind) but I don't want to open that whole can of worms again if that's already been spoken about but those setting this thing up.

I would expect the payment for services would being with it some professional responsibilities (and threat of possible recourse) but the lack of it wouldn't.

Anyway - just my 5c... happy to butt out as the Mentoring system doesn't worry me too much. It seems quite good from afar (not being intimately involved)