All those in favour of standard Superbikes?

[slowpoke]

I saw this from Kings of Wanneroo meeting in Western Australia. This is taken straight off WWW.MCNEWS.COM and really gives an idea of skill over $$$ due to the restrictions on machine development.

It's difficult unless you know the guys involved but there are some stellar efforts here. Allerton as current ASC champ is almost expected to top the qualifying but it's vindication against some internationals that it's not just a Factory ride that got him to the title. Staring is a young guy that hasn't quite shown his potential thanks to doing a Stoner and being super-fast or in the dirt, but if he's injury free he's as good as anyone in Oz.

I know Ben Stronach and as a multi time and current state champ he's fuckin' fast around Wanneroo (local lap record holder) so I thought it was almost unbelivable that he'd qualify down in 14th, but most of those in front have International or National experience whilst he, for one reason or another, has chosen to stay in WA.

There's a lesson there for you young aspiring types, his brother Cam was considered a less developed rider last year but after an unpaid season on a World Superstock bike he now looks to be the quicker rider. Same goes for Cam Keevers and Ben Henry (his Kiwi dad founded world renowned Ducati tuners Vee Two of Alchemy/Squalo/Super Squalo fame) who have done National series and jumped ahead.

There are some big names there, some not really noted for their short circuit expertise, but it's interesting to see the cream rise to the top on fairly unmodified and similar machines.

I'm not sure who was on standard suspension but it's interesting reading if you follow the Aussie/UK scene. Shame no Kiwi based riders ventured over.

-- Kings of Wanneroo 2008 - Combined Final Qualifying / Grid

Production Superbikes - Standard engines - Only aftermarket shock and fork internals allowed, some riders still on standard shock, Pirelli tyres

1. Glenn Allerton (Honda) 56.75 (QP1)
2. Bryan Staring (Yamaha) 56.82 (QP1)
3. Karl Harris (Yamaha) 57.05 (QP1)
4. John Laverty (Honda) 57.33 (QP1)
5. Michael Laverty (Suzuki) 57.60 (QP1)
6. Ian Lowry (Suzuki) 57.65 (QP1)
7. Ben Henry (Yamaha) 58.01 (QP1)
8. Cam Donald (Suzuki) 58.10 (QP1)
9. Cam Stronach (Yamaha) 58.17 (QP2)
10. Cam Keevers (Yamaha) 58.28 (QP1)
11. Chris Galbraith (Suzuki) 58.35 (QP2)
12. Damon Buckmaster (Kawasaki) 58.42 (QP2)
13. Adrian Coates (Yamaha) 58.44 (QP1)
14. Ben Stronach (Suzuki) 58.46 (QP1)
15. Mark Schnierer (Suzuki) 58.76 (QP1)
16. Ryan Farquhar (Kawasaki) 59.36 (QP2)
17. Bruce Anstey (Suzuki) 59.57 (QP2)
18. Kevin Boulton (Honda) 59.68 (QP1)
19. Peter Grasser (Honda) 60.08 (QP1)
20. Mike Swann (KTM) 60.61 (QP1)
21. Jason Walker (Honda) 60.99 (QP2)
22. Shane Martin (Honda) 61.28 (QP1)
23. Paul Freear (Yamaha) 61.28 (QP1)
24. Jack Tabain (Yamaha) 61.83 (QP2)
25. Wally Mulik (Yamaha) 61.91 (QP2)
25. Matthew Fathers (Ducati) 62.02 (QP2)
26. Rob Wasley (Honda) 62.68 (QP1)
27. Matthew Gould (Kawasaki) 63.79 (QP1)

[vtec]

Brilliant, the bikes are good enough for racing standard. Why jack up the cost of grass roots racing... all racing in NZ is grass roots. So keep as much of it standard as you can. If people want an open class, then there should be an open class aswell, but you would find a lot less entries I would think.

Bruce Anstey (NZ) was in it. Well down. He's either on standard suspension, or maybe it's because he's just a street race specialist.

[Shaun]

Brilliant, the bikes are good enough for racing standard. Why jack up the cost of grass roots racing... all racing in NZ is grass roots. So keep as much of it standard as you can. If people want an open class, then there should be an open class aswell, but you would find a lot less entries I would think.

Bruce Anstey (NZ) was in it. Well down. He's either on standard suspension, or maybe it's because he's just a street race specialist.

Bruce Anstey is capable of kicking 96% of our Quality Closed track riders arses on any thing dude.

He was on very badly RE- Instated shit, that was NOT set up propally, BUT please note he did do very well in the WET on Std shite

[slowpoke]

Yeah, over the years I've wondered how much is down to bike and $$$ package rather than rider ability and on a track I know with riders I know (even a few of the locals) it's answered a few questions. It would be great to know exactly who ran what as far as suspension goes.

Even with minimal time on track it's amazing how much faster some of the pro's are on basic machines. They get the sponsorship and factory rides because they are fuggin' good, not the other way around.

[codgyoleracer]

Personnaly I think there is some middle ground somehwere "in little ole NZ" for machine specification limitations , tyre controls etc. (some of this has already been done since the 2007/8 sereis)
Superbike racing is going to be friggen expensive regardless of the rules(thats motorsport for ya !) -

In my opinion , people that argue that the bikes in stock form cant be raced safely are stretching the truth, - & also they are not doing the sport any favours by making those statements considering the "PC safetycrats will pick up on this stuff & use to push their own barrow". Along with that the governing body must strongly consider safety always of course.

Add to this issue that the industry & also the industries suppliers need to be considered. Maintaining there involvement in the sport is also very important, so its a hard nut to crack without pissing someone off along the way...........

I suppose we need to ask the question "if the rules of specification were changed - would this actually result in more competitors competing at national level" ? (& by that I mean all rounds of nationals)

My suspicion is that it will make little difference - due to the hard reality that racing this class of machine at all national level rounds , requires a skill set & level of commmitment that many club racers have no intention of achieving.

Its a toughy - but certainly worthwhile debating.

GlenW

[R6_kid:Me]

Would this not be a good option for a Formula 2 level class in NZ? I know a lot of riders that are doing well in the F3 class considering their level of experience and lack of money to set up a championship winning capable bike.

Chrislost, Toast, KraZ, vtec, roadrash are but a few names that come to mind.

[Tony.OK]

Could we not have a combined SBK class? Similar to F3 and ProTwins, Full NZ SBK's combined with ProStock.....ie : No internal engine mods, same sups rules as SBK, allow exh and PC3 but no Race computers/ignition.
Run with SBK class but have separate points/title.

[steveyb]

I have not actually looked at the specific rules, but I have thought for a long time that we need to have at least another class besides 125GP where NZers can take their own (or their teams) bikes overseas and race with NO mods required to meet rules.
By this I mean Superstock 1000 and Superstock 600.

Now as I said, I haven't investigated the rules, but if they are as the names somewhat naively suggest, sort of stock, then would that make sense?

Our 600 class is basically stock and seems to work really really well for us.
Should we not just do the same for the big bikes?

We can still call the class Superbike, there is no need to change that. AND we should actually call the 600 class Supersport. 600 Sports Production is old hat and too cumbersome. Marketing is all part of the game.

Cheers

Steve

By the way, when I visited the Phase 3 Yamaha race team in the UK in 2006 I found out that their engine preparation consists of:
Uncrate engine(s) from Yamaha
Disassemble engine.
Inspect, clean casting dags and such like, replace anything that is clearly dodgy with the standard part.
Reassemble.
Put in bike or in crate ready for use.

Simple ay?

[brads]

Paul S has listed on NZSBK website "possible" changes to our 600 and SBK rules for 2010.
My opinion is they look good.

[Mishy]

Paul S has listed on NZSBK website "possible" changes to our 600 and SBK rules for 2010.
My opinion is they look good.

Yeah, not a lot of change (good) but I notice that 600SP will be required to use stock OEM Ignitions. I can't say I'm in favour of that, especially if you are allowed to use a Power Commander or Bazaaz unit to adjust fueling anyway. It just means you can't tune the spark advance properly any more . . . . . . . . . Also, from what I can make out, some of the new models don't cope that well with Aftermarket fueling ad ons, and can be problematic to tune on a dyno. Why specify stock ECU, and then allow racers to spend plenty on other stuff anyway, which may well take longer to tune on the dyno and be more expensive because of that ? the kit ECU's are normally real close, and lots of guys just bolt them in and go racing . . . . . . .

[vtec]

Would this not be a good option for a Formula 2 level class in NZ? I know a lot of riders that are doing well in the F3 class considering their level of experience and lack of money to set up a championship winning capable bike.

Chrislost, Toast, KraZ, vtec, roadrash are but a few names that come to mind.

Thanks for the big ups.
Still I don't like my chances at nationals on a standard bike. To win, you need serious moolah and professional help or vast stores of knowledge behind you.

Pro twins are a good class, I just don't like Vtwins or their power delivery. I much prefer to make it scream not rumble.

And yes, they could run F2 like that, I don't think it's too far off as it is. I think it might even encourage more support from the manufacturers. But I hate the thought of churning through several tyres per meeting, seems so wasteful.

What we really need is the manufacturers to be pumping out decent 400 like the good old days, so that we could have a stock 400 racing series. Would be comparable to the old 250 2 stroke streetbike races, only cheaper. That would whip some ass.

[Robert Taylor]

Thanks for the big ups.
Still I don't like my chances at nationals on a standard bike. To win, you need serious moolah and professional help or vast stores of knowledge behind you.

Pro twins are a good class, I just don't like Vtwins or their power delivery. I much prefer to make it scream not rumble.

And yes, they could run F2 like that, I don't think it's too far off as it is. I think it might even encourage more support from the manufacturers. But I hate the thought of churning through several tyres per meeting, seems so wasteful.

What we really need is the manufacturers to be pumping out decent 400 like the good old days, so that we could have a stock 400 racing series. Would be comparable to the old 250 2 stroke streetbike races, only cheaper. That would whip some ass.

Suspension set up schools are in the pipeline to help on that front................

[slowpoke]

I suppose we need to ask the question "if the rules of specification were changed - would this actually result in more competitors competing at national level" ? (& by that I mean all rounds of nationals)

My suspicion is that it will make little difference - due to the hard reality that racing this class of machine at all national level rounds , requires a skill set & level of commmitment that many club racers have no intention of achieving.



GlenW

Bullseye!

If I was Brian Bernard, with a fist full of Yamaha dollars to spend I'd probably be looking overseas for riders too. Looking at the Superbike ranks in NZ, bearing in mind that success is required to ensure I get another fistful next year, the locals who have done well on previous Nationals campaigns are pretty thin on the ground.

People knock him for getting in O/S riders but what alternative does he have? If I was spending 10's of $1000, and risking my livelihood I'd want to see some runs on the board too.

[wharfy]

Personnaly I think there is some middle ground somehwere "in little ole NZ" for machine specification limitations , tyre controls etc. (some of this has already been done since the 2007/8 sereis)

Yes, somewhere for people on the way up to get noticed, and somewhere for those of us who aren't going anywhere to play.

Superbike racing is going to be friggen expensive regardless of the rules(thats motorsport for ya !) -

Yes. Even on a BOG STANDARD open class machine everything wears out quicker and is more expensive to replace, A direct result of having to cope with the horsepower I guess.

In my opinion , people that argue that the bikes in stock form cant be raced safely are stretching the truth, - & also they are not doing the sport any favours by making those statements considering the "PC safetycrats will pick up on this stuff & use to push their own barrow". Along with that the governing body must strongly consider safety always of course.

I suppose that better suspension and better tyres just means the crashes happen at higher speeds than on a stock bike ? The top riders are always right on the limit anyway so crashes are inevitable for them.

Add to this issue that the industry & also the industries suppliers need to be considered. Maintaining there involvement in the sport is also very important, so its a hard nut to crack without pissing someone off along the way...........

I suppose we need to ask the question "if the rules of specification were changed - would this actually result in more competitors competing at national level" ? (& by that I mean all rounds of nationals)

My suspicion is that it will make little difference - due to the hard reality that racing this class of machine at all national level rounds , requires a skill set & level of commmitment that many club racers have no intention of achieving.

Its a toughy - but certainly worthwhile debating.

GlenW

Indeed it is a worthwhile debate, and I suspect your suspicion is correct that there are a limited number of riders in NZ with the required skills and commitment to compete in this class. One reason why I believe we should have a cheaper, easier to get into middle weight class (600's /400 singles? ) so we can entice some of the dirt bike riders to cross over and get hooked on road racing. They seem to do well once they get on the seal.

So in answer to the question posed by this thread, yes I am in favour of a standard superbike class, as long as there remains a full on F1 class (they could run together like F3 and pro-twins ?)
However I think we would get more value from a standard middleweight class.

[CHOPPA]

I just rode at Puke today on my old mans stock gixer thou, i was doing pretty fast times considering the traffic, the bike felt safe as and there was no problem with tyre wear