Accident report

[MSTRS:Me]

Would I be correct in assuming you meant to say less often than you think, Paul?

No. His reference to Ixion's 'bad luck - wrong time/place' is that it is more common than one might suppose. Which leads on to the supposition that you (and I, too) would support...that there is no such thing as 'bad luck' - only bad choices.

[Katman]

No. His reference to Ixion's 'bad luck - wrong time/place' is that it is more common than one might suppose. Which leads on to the supposition that you (and I, too) would support...that there is no such thing as 'bad luck' - only bad choices.

Sorry, it might be last night's beers, but I'm having trouble following your logic in that post.

Could you please spell it out a little clearer?

I agree with the last bit but don't see how it fits with the first bit.

[FROSTY:Me]

One thing thats clear to me is the decreased popularity in motorcycles as a first vehicle added to immensely improved EMS and serious trauma services had the effect of causing a big dip in motorcycle road deaths in the 90's.
The recent increase suggests to me that it aint bad luck its that the machinery has gotten to be "too good" for inexperienced riders. By inexperienced Im also refering to "born again bikers"

[Lissa]

It is interesting sobering reading, cheers Paul.

[MSTRS:Me]

Sorry, it might be last night's beers, but I'm having trouble following your logic in that post.

That can happen with old age...

[Paul in NZ]

No. His reference to Ixion's 'bad luck - wrong time/place' is that it is more common than one might suppose. Which leads on to the supposition that you (and I, too) would support...that there is no such thing as 'bad luck' - only bad choices.

No - I meant we think it happens more often than it really does ;-)

[Paul in NZ]

Like most of us I kind of go into denial when faced with statistics – denial and suspicion – after all, this can’t apply to ME?? I’m special dammit…

There is also the old chestnut of speed being a factor or responsibility identified vs not identified. Speed is ALWAYS a factor even if you are doing 10kph – the real question is was the speed unreasonable before other factors apart from stuff like rain etc contributed to the ‘accident’… Responsibility is always assigned after the accident and usually by someone who was not actually there – often along the lines of legal responsibility HOWEVER, balanced against this, ‘no rider fault identified’ is not the same as saying someone else was at fault. Its just saying there was not enough objective evidence to assign blame.

Where this information is potentially useful is looking at trends. Yes – the numbers need to be balanced against the number of active riders etc but there are some clear numbers in here that should give us pause to think.

Motorcyclists make up 10% of the road fatalities – a figure that was mentioned on the news this morning. This year NZ will have a record low in the numbers of deaths on our roads and the authorities will be looking at ways to improve that in 2009. Given these statistics I would seriously expect motorcycling to come under some targeted scrutiny in 2009. This could make things rather unpleasant for us unless we can come up with some initiatives to help ourselves.

Over 50% of these fatalities are primarily the fault of the rider – nearly 75% of fatal accidents are primarily the fault of the rider with head ons and running off the road beings the top two. This is fairly plainly poor judgement or bad decisions and motorcyclists are paying a heavy price for these decisions.

Like I said – I have no preconceived ideas and frankly I’m beyond worrying about other folks too much, it’s all I can do to struggle along myself. BUT these figures are not good and are receiving both official and media attention and this is going to cost us all in lost friends and in the pocket through ACC payments, insurance and increased attention from the HP.

What can we do about it?

One thing is to engage with the authorities – I’d like to see a better breakdown of figures to help identify what type of bike and the riding history of the motorcyclist. That may help identify creative legislation that would save maybe 15 to 25 lives a year and countless injuries. Maybe after not being an active rider for a certain period there has to be a graduated license program limiting the power to weight ratio? Maybe certain types of bikes require a special license much like a gun collector needs a special endorsement to own a pistol or automatic weapon?

Please don’t start banging on about freedom of choice or big brother as I don’t give a shit – yes, you are free to kill yourself in all kinds of creative fashions but that freedom seems to be impinging on my freedoms and costing me money

[de_wood_elf]

So does it mean that if I stay on restricted I'm 'protected'?
The thing with so called statistics is that they never offer a full explanation of the results. It never tells us important things like maybe motorcycle riders are made up of more males than females, weekends have the greater number of accident because there are more motorcycles on the road, important things like this are never taken into account nor explained.
Yes I know motorcyclists are at an increased risk of death and injury compared to cars and that certain road maneuvers are riskier than others but apart from that the statistics don't really mean much to me.

[Paul in NZ]

So does it mean that if I stay on restricted I'm 'protected'?
The thing with so called statistics is that they never offer a full explanation of the results. It never tells us important things like maybe motorcycle riders are made up of more males than females, weekends have the greater number of accident because there are more motorcycles on the road, important things like this are never taken into account nor explained.
Yes I know motorcyclists are at an increased risk of death and injury compared to cars and that certain road maneuvers are riskier than others but apart from that the statistics don't really mean much to me.

Good job - stick with that.... It will likely work for you...

[quickbuck]

Came to a realisation that i want/are going, to go faster and faster so being the wise ol fool i am, i'm presently on tard me ATM buying a van and searching for a track/race bike (failing that i will be tearing the lights off one of the triples, whacking clip ons on it and commiting it)

Before i become one of your statistics !

Came to a very similar conclusion myself after Taupo on Sunday.

On the way from Taupo to Turangi i was full of confidence. The traffic was doing what they felt comfortable with, but it felt ultra slow....

Now, if i didn't use restraint, I too could become one of those crazy motorcyclists who terrorise the general public at every tight corner..... (or maybe I already do, just conscious of it now).

OR, just give the bike to the other half and look up track bikes on TM.
Already have the ute.....

[sinfull]

OR, just give the bike to the other half and look up track bikes on TM.
Already have the ute.....

Spent a bit of time crying on tm tonight ! Was watching a SV 1000 write off go from 2700 to 5900 in 30 minutes ! Guess it will be the 955 i strip down then ! Got an auction to watch morra night re the van !
What was on at Taupo on sunday ?

[quickbuck]

What was on at Taupo on sunday ?

I got a bunch of Airforce lads and ladies together, and along with Honda Riders Club we had a bit of a training day on the 2.2k circuit.

On the whole the day went well, and everybody came away with new skills.
Had a debrief (as us military types always do) and come up with some great ideas for next time....

Oh, and our resident racer was testing the "Step Up" ZXR6.... got it going very fast for the 3 hour.

[xgnr]

Very good read, sobering indeed. Had a mate crap off last week, nearly killed himself, riding an old K75 BMW like a sprot bike
.

Damn another fine bike trashed...

[Marknz]

This thread got me to thinking about airing a question about 'what happens if... ?'

Some will know that I'm currently recuperating after emergency brain surgery on 30 August. Seems that I was on the verge of a major stroke, or worse, sudden death due to a cyst being in a not very good place inside my grey matter. Anyways... how would I have counted statistically if I had had that stroke or sudden death while I was riding on a straight peice of road in the 'rapa at about 100kph, or even coming up or going down the 'takas with the boys? Would I have just been one of those stupid over 40's on a supersport bike who was playing above his weight? I'm sure that's how it would have been represented in the press in the immediate aftermath, but what about in the statistics in the long run?

Just putting it out there.

[James Deuce]

Like most of us I kind of go into denial when faced with statistics – denial and suspicion – after all, this can’t apply to ME?? I’m special dammit…

Please don’t start banging on about freedom of choice or big brother as I don’t give a shit – yes, you are free to kill yourself in all kinds of creative fashions but that freedom seems to be impinging on my freedoms and costing me money

I've thought and thought about this and I can only reiterate conclusions that I came to a number of years ago.

Men shouldn't be riding bikes on the road under the age of 25. The process around risk taking in the 15-19 year old age group is well documented and now increasingly understood to be caused a lack of brain development in the areas that moderate risky behaviour. Long known and understood by the military who advertise systematic butchery as "adventure", knowing that they'll appeal to a gullible and gung ho age group. This area of the brain doesn't finish developing until a bloke is around 25. There's your lack of judgement right there.

There are a number of us out there who have "monocular" vision. Your visual cortex switches between eyes as required and when looking straight ahead only one eye functions. I have a friend with this problem and he simply cannot judge how closely he is following a single track vehicle as he has no depth perception. These people probably shouldn't be allowed a bike license. It's questionable that they should be driving at all. Sarge will probably be around tonight to rearrange my internal organs, but it's my opinion and inherently worthless. Someone else with the smarts and research could make it a reality.

Brain injuries, either chemical or trauma. Shouldn't be allowed to ride a bike ever. Poor judgement, and labile personality equals bad decisions. I probably shouldn't be riding. Ever taken P? No bike license. Ever been busted for class A or B drug possession? No bike license. Ever been an amateur or professional boxer or jockey? No bike license.

If you sell a road registered motorcycle and don't buy another within 6 months, you should actually foreit your bike license and start the graduated process again if you buy another road bike. I can hear the indignant howls from here. Your road craft and road sense evaporates rapidly. Driving a car and riding a bike are in no way complimentary. The only thing they share in common are the traffic regs, and most motorcyclists don't give two hoots about traffic regs. I know I don't, but I'm a bit arrogant. After 10 years off bikes I had to relearn and unlearn a bunch of stuff. It took 3 years and 2 accidents to get over the "woohoo, I'm riding again" feeling.

If you hold a race license, no road license. More shouting, I know, but it seems to me that a race license seems to convey a sense of invulnerability to the fast road rider.

All a bit harsh isn't it? There's compellign scientific and statistical arguments to back my conclusions up. It only takes a few laws to make them real if you don't, as Paul has said, sharpen up our overall act.