ESE's works engine tuner

[ken seeber]

In fact I didn't start the Ryger tumult on any forum;

Dunno if we can believe you one this one Frits. A tumult is:

1. * The din and commotion of a great crowd.
*2. *
*a. * A disorderly commotion or disturbance.
*b. * A tempestuous uprising; a riot.
*3. * Agitation of the mind or emotions

Anyways, I think the messages from Frits are clear. The thing is simple mechanically and we're a great crowd. .

To prevent any further tumult Frits, do you have any idea of when the patent will be finalized? Husa is ranting at the bit and Neil has got his design and pattern making team ready on standby at full penalty rates, costing him a fortune.

[Frits Overmars]

Dunno if we can believe you one this one Frits.
A tumult is: 1 The din and commotion of a great crowd. 2a A disorderly commotion or disturbance. 2b A tempestuous uprising; a riot. 3 Agitation of the mind or emotions

Option # 3 would qualify, wouldn't it Ken? Anyways, english is not my native language so I will be grateful for all pointers you can give me.

Anyways, I think the messages from Frits are clear. The thing is simple mechanically and we're a great crowd.

You seem to have grasped it. Now let's see how long this understanding of simplicity will last before new complicated ideas start rearing their heads again.
Not that I mind; they can be quite inspiring.

To prevent any further tumult Frits, do you have any idea of when the patent will be finalized? Husa is ranting at the bit and Neil has got his design and pattern making team ready on standby at full penalty rates, costing him a fortune.

Asked and answered. But I'd like to stress once more that I don't understand the first thing about legal matters; I'll have to wait and see like the rest of us.

[adegnes]

If the Ryger engine has a conventional port layout (it may not, but let's say it does) it would run out of time area long before 17000rpm, and certainly 30k, with a traditional crank.
If you want to keep it simple you can't do anything about the area part, that would take a lot of complicated stuff like moving walls with linkages and whatnot.
But what about the time part? Could the crank assembly be asymmetric in a way that during one revolution the piston moves slower where it matters - during blowdown and around bdc? A scotch yoke could do this right? Or any other "cam like" crank assembly.
With enough time there's no need for any additional pressure.

Just like the FOS cylinder takes care of the problem with more area in all the right placed, maybe the Ryger does it with more time in all the right periods during one revolution.

How it all survives I have no clue.

[breezy]

Thanks for reply, given me something to contemplate.

Wobbly, what impact, would being able to vary the compression ratio of the 2 stroke engine have, if were possible , whilst it was running and have a pretty much variable unrestricted induction air/fuel flow capability?

[Flettner]

I can see there are several great minds at work here. No doubt you could design a triple-overhead desmodromic five-stroke with threedimensional variable valve timing, but keeping things simple seems to be more difficult than that.
I hope you will permit me to use the above quotes when I ever get around to putting the Ryger history in book form, so we can all have a good laugh, looking back on it.

O well at least we tried, the team will have to stand down for now, tell Ryger he's welcome to my rocker idea, maybe he could build a decient twostroke using it anyway

[Haufen]

I don't know if this has been asked before - does the ryger engine use the stock pipe?

[wobbly]

If you have variable compression ( I assume the basic idea is - high com in the mid range, low com on the pipe ) then some form of the system used by Yamaha
in 500GP of a moving insert controlled by gas pressure would ( and did to a certain extent ) work fine.
Thus when the trapping and scavenging efficiency is low, overcompressing this compromised mixture would pump up the midband power.
Then when the dynamic com is high, as are the scavenging and trapping efficiency - along with a high delivery ratio, you can back the com off and use the extra energy in the pipe.
The above scenario would work even better, using the 24/7 idea as well, as this dramatically increases the delivery ratio, thus increasing the dynamic com,enabling even more use of the
available fuel energy in the pipe by lowering the static compression ratio.

[breezy]

If you have variable compression ( I assume the basic idea is - high com in the mid range, low com on the pipe ) then some form of the system used by Yamaha
in 500GP of a moving insert controlled by gas pressure would ( and did to a certain extent ) work fine.
Thus when the trapping and scavenging efficiency is low, overcompressing this compromised mixture would pump up the midband power.
Then when the dynamic com is high, as are the scavenging and trapping efficiency - along with a high delivery ratio, you can back the com off and use the extra energy in the pipe.
The above scenario would work even better, using the 24/7 idea as well, as this dramatically increases the delivery ratio, thus increasing the dynamic com,enabling even more use of the
available fuel energy in the pipe by lowering the static compression ratio.

thanks again

[husaberg]

I spelt it wrong too i guess "Polini" powerhead

plus 10 more carrots

[Flettner]

I can see there are several great minds at work here. No doubt you could design a triple-overhead desmodromic five-stroke with threedimensional variable valve timing, but keeping things simple seems to be more difficult than that.
I hope you will permit me to use the above quotes when I ever get around to putting the Ryger history in book form, so we can all have a good laugh, looking back on it.

Frits, are spotachtig us

[Flettner]

I fully understand the adjustment system. That adjustment could also be used in my suggested ideas. The "fixed" pivot for the rocker arm would actually be able to move vertically by say about 2mm. It could be varied with revs or load.

Sorry Mike, I guess I didn't read your post properly.

[2T Institute]

I know how it's done, with a rocker arm ( Ryger ). As Frits said simple, piston and rod are one as we decided before but forget that complicated crank within a crank idea. Round conrod comes down through the "sealed off from oil" guide bush under the piston then terminates at a rocker arm. This arm is anckored at the area where the case reed used to be, there is a solid looking plate covering that hole that looks like it could be more than just a crank case seal, I think something is attached to it. The crankshaft could be connected to this rocker arm further down the fulcrum so the crankshaft stroke is less than 54mm. The problems with bigends are not so much combustion load but load from centripital force so less stroke, less centripital force at higher rpm, no problem with increaseing the combustion load ( leaverage from the arm ). The attachment to the case ( plate ) would need a small secondary linkege to allow for the fact that the lever arm pivots. This attachment linkage could be adjustable to make the piston move higher or lower in the cylinder ie low rpm or high rpm also having a useful effect on the compression and port timing, on the fly. Tell me I'm right!
And I still think they are using combustion pressure to " excite " the crankcase pressure at higher rpm where there is not enough blow down time and higher transfer pressure is needed, probably through a fine wire mesh to take out some of the combustion heat.

And done right you could have a fast / slow piston movement, like an old shaper, fast one way slower the other. Perhaps help with blowdown time?

To be fair, Ken Seeber was the one who noticed the thick alloy cover over the bottom reed housing.

The "artist impression" that rapidly disappeared off FB is pretty much this but connected to a conventional crankshaft . I have a artists impression of a artists impression at home

[Flettner]

Ok, you want simple ( ish ) try connecting the end of your chamber ( reverse cone ) to the crank case via some sort of membrane ( diapham ) Sucking when it should, pumping when it should. There is your supercharging ( and crank case volume change every cycle )

[husaberg]

Ok, you want simple ( ish ) try connecting the end of your chamber ( reverse cone ) to the crank case via some sort of membrane ( diapham ) Sucking when it should, pumping when it should. There is your supercharging ( and crank case volume change every cycle )

Pretty sure I suggested that one it was husas guess version 687.....

[Flettner]

Pretty sure I suggested that one it was husas guess version 687.....

There is no I in TEAM. Now it's called team work.