ESE's works engine tuner

[Frits Overmars]

Frits, do you know Rob Met of MB engines ? If so, you can mention me , Neil from NZ.

I know Rob Metkemeijer very well, Neil. We've done a couple of projects together, like introducing the first sleeveless cylinder in F3D pylon racing, on the 6,5 cc MB40 engine that has been just about unbeatable for the past 13 years or so (I stopped counting).
Below you'll see the 2002 version of the engine, the cylinder and the dyno with left to right the eddy current brake, the flywheel, the safety coupling, the engine and the quick-change exhaust pipe fixture.



PS: don't build an inertia dyno for these kind of revs unless you know what you're doing.

[Frits Overmars]

Frits, can you tell us what Harry Ryger is planning to be doing with his engine concept, in the future? Does he intend to sell it to an OEM, like a Motorcycle or Kart manufacturer? Does he plan to start his own company as an engine supplier?

I don't think the non-disclosure agreement applies here, but a normal chat between friends also deserves some privacy, so I won't give any details, but Harry intends to supply his own engines. He's not in it for the money, he's just a guy with a passion for two-strokes, just like yours truly.

[breezy]

And that such people could be your caregivers in later life.

Just to help you sleep tonight.

cheers mate

[TZ350]

page 1240 .....

Here are some other very interesting threads:-
Foundry:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...Foundry/page29
Team GPR:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1130775246
Frame and Chassis:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...chassis/page38
Chris C's photos:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...-warning/page5
Old #6:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...68694-6/page49
Bucket Lap Records:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...-records/page8
Photographic History of Bucket Racing:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...t-racing/page3
Ecotrons engine management:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...nagement/page5

2T Engine development software:-

Porting Program http://www.porting-programs.com/

EngMod2T http://www.vannik.co.za/EngMod2T.htm

There are also over 7000 images on this thread, use "Thread Tools" to view them and then click through to the original post about them.

Attachment 302136Attachment 302135


Page 600 is worth a look at:- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...-tuner/page600

And there are also over 7,000 images on this thread. Follow the link below and you will find screen shots of the process.

Blowdown STA (Specific Time Area) is everything and determines the RPM ceiling and power output of your motor.

Optimum Exhaust Port Duration is 190 deg but blowdown STA requirements may force you to use a longer exhaust duration.

Wob often refers to the vital dimensions and Frits posted a diagram of them. Stick to these %%% to get good results.

Attachment 301223
Frits suggested design criteria for a good pipe.

Attachment 301224

Click on Husabergs link to read about transfer port angles.

Transfer Port theory

Transfer Ports. Low and Wide is the go….

The 135mm inlet tract length from tip of reed to carb bellmouth rule of thumb.

Attachment 302659 Frits's version of a short carb setup.

pit-lane.biz is another really good thread:-

http://www.pit-lane.biz/f34-gp125-et-250-snif

http://www.pit-lane.biz/t5121-gp125-...vermars-part-4

http://www.pit-lane.biz/t4072-gp125-...-part-3-locked

http://www.pit-lane.biz/t3173-gp125-...-part-2-locked

http://www.pit-lane.biz/t117-gp125-a...-part-1-locked

NSR250 suspension tuning:- http://nsr-world.com/tuning/250-tuning/suspension/

NSR250 Engine Tuning:- http://nsr-world.com/tuning/250-tuning/engine/

Ed Tuck racing (NSR250):- http://edetuckracing.blogspot.co.nz/...5-pistons.html

http://www.twostrokeracelab.com/

http://www.2strokers.com/index.php?topic=184.0

[Lightbulb]

Below you'll see the 2002 version of the engine, the cylinder and the dyno with left to right the eddy current brake, the flywheel, the safety coupling, the engine and the quick-change exhaust pipe fixture.

Thanks for the reply. Do you have any plan or info on the dyno you made ?
I want to make one for testing a 6.5ccF3D engine and the 2.5ccFAI engine.
The 2.5 cc revs to about 41K but I want to see what happens if it goes to 43k compared to the 39-41 at present.
The problem is that with just trying different props etc it is hard to figure out where the real power is with which particular pipe .
Have you looked at real time crank case pressures with your engine work?
It is another fascinating aspect of looking at what happens in an engine. I also had pressure transducers on a pipe at different places as well.
It just gave me more questions than answers, and nothing lines up with all that I read about how tuned pipes actually worked. The only thing that correlated was the wave speed of the pulse. And even that varied depending on where the measurements were taken.But that is to be expected as the pressure and temperature changes effect the wave speed.
It is surprising how there does not seem to be very much difference in the induction and port timings between small engines and the bike gokart engines. What really surprised me on pipes was when the rules changed and silencers were added to the pipes, we saw a power gain in both the torque and the top end rpm, which in not what were expecting. I am assuming that we stumbled upon a helmholtz effect on the system.

Neil

[Lightbulb]

Has anyone heard of , or do they offset balance crank shafts?
What I am asking about , is when the crank is balanced but not assembled, does the crank pin sit at 1am to 1:30 on the side of the direction of rotation as to sitting at the 12 pm position? This is when looking at a crank when it turns in a clock wise direction.
Any info or experience would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Neil

[wobbly]

Welcome back Neil, no hear from you for ages.
Yes, I have been investigating offset balance just recently as I am involved with a crank made in USA for a 1200cc twin used for
Jetski freestyle engine.
The offset asymmetric balance crank seems to be smoother than the traditional setup, but i still havnt got my head around why this should be - it certainly is
in practice.

F5 - thanks for the music interlude,I already have the BlueRay and thought for a long time that Tools live version of No Quarter by Zeppelin was actually superior.
But I have just recently built the hell vinyl front end, and my youngest son bought me The Song Remains The Same.
On that the live in New York guitar shred is completely the most amazing thing I have ever heard.
Last time racing in Vegas i went to Maynards Merkin Winery, met the man and had a few samples over dinner, 2 lines off the bucket list.

Try this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtaM...ature=youtu.be

[Flettner]

I know Rob Metkemeijer very well, Neil. We've done a couple of projects together, like introducing the first sleeveless cylinder in F3D pylon racing, on the 6,5 cc MB40 engine. That engine has been just about unbeatable for the past 13 years or so (I stopped counting).
Below you'll see the 2002 version of the engine, the cylinder and the dyno with left to right the eddy current brake, the flywheel, the safety coupling, the engine and the quick-change exhaust pipe fixture.



PS: don't build an inertia dyno for these kind of revs unless you know what you're doing.

Having no piston ring is one hell of an advantage, look at that exhaust port!

[husaberg]

Having no piston ring is one hell of an advantage, look at that exhaust port!

I know MZ did experiments without them, but the materials of the time (at least those available to them) were not up to it then.

[Lightbulb]

Thanks Wobbly,
yeah it's been a while, I owe you a phone call or 2.
I suspect it has been around for quite a long time but just not talked about.
Some things are like that, like the use of submicron lathes to make some of the parts super
accurately round, or the use of other gear to obtain a round setup at operating temperature.
Like with the model engines, the biggest gains are the sealing from around 30 deg BTDC to 30 deg ATDC

Ringless model engines if the piston geometry is correct, can get away with just enormously wide ports all round,especially the exhaust.
Larger ringless engines have been tried but at 15cc seems to be the max in a high performance engine. After that, the rate of expansion with materials
becomes too great and the most common failure is a seized or picked up piston.
Neil

[nick gill]

Some 50's history you might find interesting....
Came across this FOS style symmetrical cylinder by Ydral a while back. I think it may be in part a design by Vincenzo Piatti, who patented his own scavenging patterns and designed many small bore two stroke engines for various manufacturers in the 1950's.



This style crown is very Piatti:

[husaberg]

Some 50's history you might find interesting....
Came across this FOS style symmetrical cylinder by Ydral a while back. I think it may be in part a design by Vincenzo Piatti, who patented his own scavenging patterns and designed many small bore two stroke engines for various manufacturers in the 1950's.

He also designed the Suzuki TSCC.

The other bit is for Grumph we mentioned a while back this guy i certainly never knew he would go to the evil side i guess he is in a way responsible for the Evil FXR150 as Well.
He knew Bugathi as well as co designing the TSCC.

http://twinspin-ec.com/Analysis Software.htm

Frits and Wob and Grumph have probably seen them but does anyone have a pic of the Italian designed by Vincenco Piatti
AMC England manufactured motors made for James/Francis Barnet etc.The ones with the funny piston head port cut outs to control the fuel air charge kind of like a non loop scavenged deflector.Pic posted below. but a bit hard to make out detail sorry.
Because i am pretty sure they were all transfer gully ports as well. Just a trench machined into the cylinder with no cylinder wall to support them. Although i understand the motor was a piece of poo it did have a radial finned head.
In the shed at my old mans there is modified Villiers Cylinder that cut through the sleeve entirely and used the pistons skirt for the outer wall of the cylinder.
I am certainly not suggesting it was a great idea but It was done for a time at least once. Probably not that successful other wise they would be more common..
Note these engine were under-square and had real long skirts.No short skirt for you there wob sorry


http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/289/54...t-Cruiser.aspx

[nick gill]

I think your google docs link might need a bit of tweeking there Husa, there's emoticons bursting out of it

[husaberg]

I think your google docs link might need a bit of tweeking there Husa, there's emoticons bursting out of it

Yes it was a quote of one of my posts about 4 years ago.
I can't get them to work but I have done what I could.
the patents held by him link will not work so anyone interested should look for themselves.

[nick gill]

does anyone have a pic of the Italian designed by Vincenco Piatti.........The ones with the funny piston head port cut outs to control the fuel air charge.......i understand the motor was a piece of poo it did have a radial finned head

Not sure if you're still keen Husa but I've got some more Piatti engine pics, having restored a few now. Yes they are long stroke poo (51x61) with finger ports, I can confirm that, but the symmetrical Ydral cylinder I posted earlier could be modified into a real winner I'm sure.



Normally I won't touch billet, squeezed or forged 2T pistons, but for odd-ball restorations there's little other choice than to go billet. These are machined from Avional 2618 billet by Wossner Germany:


Sorry if all this hurts your eyes but hopefully there's something to be learned in studying the early stuff, especially cylinders like the air-over-water Noguchi Yamahas etc....