ESE's works engine tuner

[Flettner]

Oops, what have we here? Finally found the camera. Hard chrome tube is 22mm Dia, ( OK it's 7/8" ), 2.1mm wall.
Top end is so secret, I don't even know what it looks like.

That's not entirely true, I know what I want inside, it has two exhaust ports and I can't make up my mind whether it will have eight ,ten or twelve transfers? One version uses reeds in the transfers and one does not. The one that does not will NEED EFI but will have massive blow down time. The second version is more ram jet inspired, rather than pulse jet.

[adegnes]

I guess thats why they call it the block, Hey why not? We can go back and make a pretty one later.

Cubism?

[JanBros]

frits i remember reading something about a 2t engine that was tested and power started to go down after 150f water temp if i recall the story correctly. although i dont remember to what temp limit the engine was tested to or even the rate of power loss after 150f. im sure jan did all these same type of tests. did he ever mention what the water temp was when power started to decline and what the rate of decline was ?

Jan has tested this with Aprillia, and if I remember correctly, HP goes down as soon as the temp rises : no radiator, only running cold water from the tap gave the most power. (like Husa says, on pitlane).

[breezy]

Oops, what have we here? Finally found the camera. Hard chrome tube is 22mm Dia, ( OK it's 7/8" ), 2.1mm wall.
Top end is so secret, I don't even know what it looks like.

only just a thought, but perhaps for future designs maybe one of these could be attached to the side... giving it that " phoenix from the flames" feel..... ... just thinking out loud

[husaberg]

only just a thought, but perhaps for future designs maybe one of these could be attached to the side... giving it that " phoenix from the flames" feel..... ... just thinking out loud

What turkey laid that
That particular design went pear shaped, egg shaped and rather odd.

I was reading a article about what Hele had wanted to do with it.
He designed a 4 speed in the early fifties and gave it some decent power the management didn't want a bar of it they didn't see the point of more than 3 gears.

[TZ350]

Oops, what have we here? Finally found the camera. Hard chrome tube is 22mm Dia, ( OK it's 7/8" ), 2.1mm wall. Top end is so secret, I don't even know what it looks like.

Took the old Beast's rolling chassis to its new home today and while I was there I had a look at Flettner's new project, a normal 4T crank and rod but with a beam from the rods LE eye to a pivot that you can see, just poking out the side of the case to the right of the degree wheel.

It amazes me that a normal crank rod arrangement salvaged from an old 4T can be made to push the tube up and down with what looked like little or no side loading.



By rotating the eccentric pivot one can change the length of the stroke by about 2mm. Flettner also pointed out you could have a servo turn the pivot so that the engine would have truily controlled variable compression that suited the rpm.



I also got to see the progress being made with the Creasy engine, it was very interesting to see how the piston and cylinder moved to expose the ports. lots of blowdown STA there and they are uncovered very quickly too.



One of the autogyro, or is this a frost machine engine that Flettner makes sitting on the water brake dyno.

Many thanks for showing me your projects. Hopefully the old chassis will be useful when you want to road test one of these engines.



Or if you want to try one of those big 2T engines out that you make for the frost machines as a track day bike engine. Anyway I am real pleased to think the Beast might still be useful as a test bed for one of these interesting engines ....

A 1100cc three cylinder two stroke, now that would be something ......

[peewee]

wob do you care to give a quick explanaition of how to measure the flow width of these type of ports for engmod ? it doesnt give any explanation in the help section. aparently they assume the purchaser is already smart or something

also on the passage exit and window ratio, the help section only mentions if the piston doesnt fully uncover the window at bdc, and i understand that aspect of it but would a port with a radius wall or kicker inside the passage qaulify for a 1:1 ratio or does a measurement need to be taken slightly inside the passage and then compared to the window ? again the help section doesnt clarify any of this stuff

[breezy]

what turkey laid that
that particular design went pear shaped, egg shaped and rather odd.

I was reading a article about what hele had wanted to do with it.
He designed a 4 speed in the early fifties and gave it some decent power the management didn't want a bar of it they didn't see the point of more than 3 gears.

0000000000

[ken seeber]

A random Ryger thought. Now, if a KZ has peak power @ 13k and the Ryger is @17k and it uses the same exhaust, this got me thinking. On the basis that Harry is still using the exhaust to improve the trapping efficiency then, all things being equal, could this mean that the exhaust duration is 13/17 ths of the normal KZ of, say 190deg, giving a duration of 145 deg? One thought is that this could give a longer power stroke. However, it also must be recognised that if 30% of the fuel energy goes equally to the power, coolant and exhaust, then we have 70 hp at our disposal to do something with, maybe in a more efficient way that just energising the exhaust system.

Obviously the line of thought is that, on the basis that the exhaust opens later, some other ports/passages open earlier to provide some subsequent mixture mass flow assistance. It is stated that there are 11 transfers. Looking at the pics, it does look like, externally anyway, that there is the conventional 2 *A, 2*B and 1*C, ports. So, the other six "transfers" might still be transfers, but carrying some flow in the downwards direction. There is no spec in the CIK regs that specify a bulk flow direction within the transfers.

[husaberg]

0000000000

I was eyeing up a set of villers crankcases today 9E or similar ilk thinking crickey a CR500 or similar crank would almost fit in there.
Gee they are heavy.
Can't think of a decent box though that has clutch and output on the same side though.

[breezy]

https://youtu.be/NjHr6_8hEqc having been inspired by TZ and this thread . finally got this running. suzuki gp 125 crank, cagiva mito barrel, bsa bantam cases. had originally used rotax junior barrel but changed for the power valved mito barrel because of the 50.6 x 56 stroke and bore.

[wobbly]

The ports are easy to define, the A port is simply the widths ( top and bottom ) perpendicular to the rear wall.
Then the B port is chordal across the face,then measure the duct before the hook perpendicular again ,and that enables the exit ratio to be calculated.

Ken, the low port giving a longer power stroke is a fallacy, the pressure when the port opens ( high or low ) is infinitesimal compared to the 90 Bar peak cylinder pressure.
A low port simply enables higher efficiency at the rpm extremes ,thus a much wider power band due to superposition of the Ex pulses.

[husaberg]

The ports are easy to define, the A port is simply the widths ( top and bottom ) perpendicular to the rear wall.
Then the B port is chordal across the face,then measure the duct before the hook perpendicular again ,and that enables the exit ratio to be calculated.

Ken, the low port giving a longer power stroke is a fallacy, the pressure when the port opens ( high or low ) is infinitesimal compared to the 90 Bar peak cylinder pressure.
A low port simply enables higher efficiency at the rpm extremes ,thus a much wider power band due to superposition of the Ex pulses.

I think relying on what we all knew or thought we knew or kind of knew may have been not the entire picture.
What ever the Ryger is using is seemingly not reliant on the chamber much at all.
Its certainly looks very plain jane.

[ken seeber]

The ports are easy to define, the A port is simply the widths ( top and bottom ) perpendicular to the rear wall.
Then the B port is chordal across the face,then measure the duct before the hook perpendicular again ,and that enables the exit ratio to be calculated.

Ken, the low port giving a longer power stroke is a fallacy, the pressure when the port opens ( high or low ) is infinitesimal compared to the 90 Bar peak cylinder pressure.
A low port simply enables higher efficiency at the rpm extremes ,thus a much wider power band due to superposition of the Ex pulses.

Wob, agreed that the longer power stroke is diminishing returns stuff. From my original SAE Honda plot, the pressures are around 12 and 5 bar, respectively at the 190 and 145 duration opening points, low as you say, in spite of the greater leverage at these points. Hence my thoughts of using that pressure for other purposes.

However, it is good to know, from what you say, that there is as much wider powerband potential. Maybe that's how he can get it to run to 30k without strangling itself with a totally off tuned pipe. If that's the case or not....this is the world of EngMod and dudes with a good understanding of the exhaust.

[Flettner]

A random Ryger thought. Now, if a KZ has peak power @ 13k and the Ryger is @17k and it uses the same exhaust, this got me thinking. On the basis that Harry is still using the exhaust to improve the trapping efficiency then, all things being equal, could this mean that the exhaust duration is 13/17 ths of the normal KZ of, say 190deg, giving a duration of 145 deg? One thought is that this could give a longer power stroke. However, it also must be recognised that if 30% of the fuel energy goes equally to the power, coolant and exhaust, then we have 70 hp at our disposal to do something with, maybe in a more efficient way that just energising the exhaust system.

Obviously the line of thought is that, on the basis that the exhaust opens later, some other ports/passages open earlier to provide some subsequent mixture mass flow assistance. It is stated that there are 11 transfers. Looking at the pics, it does look like, externally anyway, that there is the conventional 2 *A, 2*B and 1*C, ports. So, the other six "transfers" might still be transfers, but carrying some flow in the downwards direction. There is no spec in the CIK regs that specify a bulk flow direction within the transfers.

When you are not limited by rules (CIK) you can do anything. Im leaning toward the eight transfer port reedless cylinder with massive blowdown, pulsed EFI would be good but I'm not too sure of a system that will happily work at 30,001 RPM, perhaps constant flow, electronic control. Piston is dampened and as you see earlier a linkage is used, piston stroke is 52mm, crank is 34mm. Case will run under a vacuum. No one said transfers can not double as exhausts, with suitable thermal coating and water cooled. Do transfers even need to be connected to anything?
Right enough talk, off to the pattern shop, I feel a cylinder needs to be made, thankfully with all symmetrical ( ish ) port shapes.
Best of all it won't need coating as nothing will be touching the cylinder wall.
Edit, on second thoughts six transfers might be better and a little easier to make.
Edit 2, port radii ? who needs them, no rings to catch.