ESE's works engine tuner

[koba]

Has anyone one tried machining small horizontal fins on the sides of the vertical fins. More surface area without greatly increasing the cooling path.

The gaps between the small fins MAY (and I'm just guessing here) not be open enough to get good enough heat shredding airflow.
I imagine there would be a hot area of little flow very close to the fin with the heat dissipated by the cool air moving fast past that.
This is all me just logicing out loud....
But lots of close fins do work for radiators...
Maybe lots of tiny radiator fins attached to the head.
Or a radiator cut and shaped to sit on the head and filled with molten copper which solidifies and fills up the area normally full of water....

ahhh, crazy ideas - this is why I love buckets.

[F5 Dave]

Just be careful if you did get hold of some beryllium copper as it is quite poisonous to have floating about the air whilst machining.

[Bren_chch]

Just be careful if you did get hold of some beryllium copper as it is quite poisonous to have floating about the air whilst machining.

Is there anything this man does not know!

[TZ350]

Just be careful if you did get hold of some beryllium copper as it is quite poisonous to have floating about the air whilst machining.

Thanks Dave. I dont want the...

[Sketchy_Racer]

Just be careful if you did get hold of some beryllium copper as it is quite poisonous to have floating about the air whilst machining.

Clean machining it is ok. If you grind it, or turn it molten it is nasty stuff. We make injection moulds out of a special alloy of beryllium copper and a few other secret additives to make it tough and very hard. Hard copper you ask?

[F5 Dave]

Can you shrink it into a ring that you might 'squish' up into some ally?

[F5 Dave]

Clean machining it is ok.

Also it sort of depends on your take on H&S. In my (very) limited knowledge I understand that most places overseas machining this stuff have special set ups, respirators etc, whereas in China it's probably no problem to be spraying your staff with fine machining swarf, by it's nature of being hard I suspect fine cuts are order of the day unlike ally.

Mind you only 20 years ago techs in NZ were wiping down the benches with a rag doused in MEK. Times change.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Also it sort of depends on your take on H&S. In my (very) limited knowledge I understand that most places overseas machining this stuff have special set ups, respirators etc, whereas in China it's probably no problem to be spraying your staff with fine machining swarf, by it's nature of being hard I suspect fine cuts are order of the day unlike ally.

Mind you only 20 years ago techs in NZ were wiping down the benches with a rag doused in MEK. Times change.

I really should change what I say there, at work we just machine it. It is done in an enclosed CNC lathe usually the parts we do, and we try not to have to much contact with it. From my understanding is has a very slight radioactivity which is bad.

There are many different blends of it, but the tough stuff that we use I don't think has the heat transferring properties like oxygen free pure copper.

I could make a head for a air cooled two stroke out of one, but it will cost about $4000 for the material

[TZ350]

Yep I have wiped a few benches with MEK in my time.. ..and cleaned a fair few vacuum systems with pure ethanol. Our idea of "Mainlining" and jolly good fun was to squirt a jet of ethanol past the nose and take a really deep breath......how the concept of H&S and times change. It all ended when after an ethanol (like water) fight one very wobbly and wet individual dared another equally inebriated soul to set him alight, and the other shining light of intelligence obliged.

[speedpro]

In the radar bay we went through drums of freon wiping up the silicon oil that was used as a dielectric and coolant in the radar systems. We upped the demand for that silicon oil in NZ by a huge factor. Previously massage parlours were the only ones who ordered it.

[Fooman]

I really should change what I say there, at work we just machine it. It is done in an enclosed CNC lathe usually the parts we do, and we try not to have to much contact with it. From my understanding is has a very slight radioactivity which is bad.

There are many different blends of it, but the tough stuff that we use I don't think has the heat transferring properties like oxygen free pure copper.

I could make a head for a air cooled two stroke out of one, but it will cost about $4000 for the material

Beryllium (as used in alloying) is not radioactive, but it is quite toxic. Is stiff and light weight so it is in a lot of aerospace structural alloys. I've come across it twice - it is transparent to certain wavelengths in the X-ray band, so it is used as a filter for x-ray spectroscopy equipment. Plus a mad post-grad student at the Uni I went to was doing research into aluminium-lithium-beryllium and magnesium-lithium-beryllium casting alloys. Was spectacular stuff to see be cast, especially when he held the Li in the molten Al. All the cutting of test samples he did was in a little sealed box and all the swarf, etc was bagged up and disposed of in hazchem containers.

However, Beryllium copper would not be a good material to use for heat sinks (other than the cost):

Thermal conductivities:

Cu - Be = 66 W/(m K)
70-30 Brass = 110 W/(m K)
319 Al (Typical Al-Si-Cu casting alloy used in engines) = 190 W/(m K)
Pure Al = 210 W/(m K)
CuCr or CuZr age hardening alloys ~ 200 to 270ish W/(m K) <- not too sure on this figure - I don't have access to my reference material at work
Pure Cu = 380 W/(m K)
Pure Ag = 406 W/(m K)

Cheers,
FM

[TZ350]

Thanks Fooman. I will be back, after a bit more research.

Later.

After some more research it turns out that:-

Aluminum and its common alloys have thermal conductivities in the range 200 to 250 W/mK more or less.

Copper 380

(Pure) Beryllium 218

Beryllium copper alloys can have low thermal conductivities 66 88 etc. The hard alloys.

Beryllium nickle copper alloys. The conductive alloys, (made for their electrical properties) can have thermal conductivities better than aluminum and as nearly as good as pure copper. But these are made as sheet for electrical contacts.

So in real practical terms any Beryllium Alloy hard enough and in a suitable size that I can get is going to have a lower thermal conductivity than a block of aluminum and so of no real use.

Who would have thought making a better head than the factory would prove so hard.

Thermal Conductivity = heat × distance / (area × temperature gradient)

λ = Q × L / (A × ΔT)

[TZ350]

The gaps between the small fins MAY (and I'm just guessing here) not be open enough to get good enough heat shredding airflow.
I imagine there would be a hot area of little flow very close to the fin with the heat dissipated by the cool air moving fast past that.
This is all me just logicing out loud....
But lots of close fins do work for radiators...
Maybe lots of tiny radiator fins attached to the head.
Or a radiator cut and shaped to sit on the head and filled with molten copper which solidifies and fills up the area normally full of water....

ahhh, crazy ideas - this is why I love buckets.

Maybe not such a crazy idea.

[k14]

First I'll just say that this is a very intersting thread and I am checking back every day. But it needs to be said, stop going round and round in circles and learn to ride the thing better. From what I gather you have a bike that is powerful enough to be winning, so focus on the handling and your riding and you will be better for it

[Skunk]

I too keep coming back to this thread just out of interest. Really cool stuff both in the ideas and the facts.

I get the feeling he's like me - more interested in the engineering than the winning. I do things for the hell of it - not because I'll win (win? Yeah, right.) It's all good fun. There is no other reason to put an F6 into a ZXR frame eh? They both just happened to come together - never will be a winning combination.