Forum whore
No worries Will, we thrive on chaos.Originally Posted by WilDun
Eh, rugby? Is that one of those sports where you only need one ball?
That's right Jan. That is why there is only 50 cc of oil in the Ryger crankcase. Or was it 60 cc?
Right again, so the Ryger crankcase is separated from the gearbox, as in any decent engine (aka two-stroke).
Moped rider
That's right Jan. That is why there is only 50 cc of oil in the Ryger crankcase. Or was it 60 cc?
Right again, so the Ryger crankcase is separated from the gearbox, as in any decent engine (aka two-stroke).[/QUOTE]
So it was proffesor plum in the parlor but was it with a wrench or a lead pipe ?
Hardcore Biker
(Quote Originally Posted by MotleyCrue )
But will "one day" be this year, next year, the year after. Reading up on patents, things can drag on a long time, sometimes on purpose. Sounds like people have projects on hold waiting for "one day". (end Quote)
(Quote TZ350) My thoughts exactly, I think we need to stop waiting for "one day" and wasting time. Its been fun but we should all get back out to the shed and on with the reality of today's projects. "one day" will come in its own time. (end Quote)
Agreed, Crue and TeeZee.
But think about the huge volume of very interesting and imaginative ideas that have been presented here since the Ryger speculation began. I am enormously impressed by this interchange, and think it can only be good for 2-strokers to get excited and get to thinking outside the box (a well-worn clichι, but it works) every so often. Having got the original-thinkers and do-it-yourselfers of the 2-stroke community all stirred up like this, when Mr. Ryger finally can present the details of his breakthrough engine to the membership here, I'd bet we soon see various tweaks and mods that improve it even further.
No8 Wire Extraordinaire
Well, we can start by polishing the head. My old trials bike had a polished head. Looked real purty. Made the mud easier to clean off too.
Real world gains.
Maybe not so important on a kart or roadrace bike.
Don't you look at my accountant.
He's the only one I've got.
Forum whore
Geez Dave you're up early.
Muddler/Dabbler.
SMITTY,
Kiwis live outside the box!
Forum whore
"Rugby" it is where grown men thrust their heads between the sweaty thighs of other grunting men. Its called a game???? but I am not so sure about that ....
Forum whore
Yeah, right
Just kidding; I know you are a free-thinking bunch over there.
Forum whore
Who told you that ......
Forum whore
Dont worry guys, the instant the CIK stamps the homologation papers I will be online to download them.
This is not far away at all.
Ryger has made it almost to the end of the process, and even has a provisional Homologation Number issued.
I laughed my tits off the other day when I saw that TM are in the same process of homologating the KZ10C.
What a joke, it may have 45Hp in stock form at the sprocket, and will be trying to stay with a 70 Hp monster.
Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.
Forum whore
They say it's possible to convert an ordinary 2T engine to the Ryger style fairly easily. So that has got me thinking. It may be some time before the Ryger system is revealed but that does not stop us getting something ready.
So what sort of motor to start with, well I think rotary valve and piston port are out because the pictures of the Ryger show a cylinder reed valve setup. So for what its worth, here are my thoughts about what could be done within the F4 rules.
Start with a good old farm bike TS/TF100 (they still make them new) and fit a rebored cylinder for 109.9cc.
To give myself as much under cylinder volume as possible and room for a cylinder adaptor plate I would use an RD400 rod and RGV250 bigend bearing.
The RD400 rod is 115mm C/C with a 20mm little end eye so with a KTM125 15x19x20 little end bearing you can use the newer style 54mm pistons with the 15mm pins.
A piston like the 2000-2003 RM125 which has one ring and the ring peg dead central at the back so it runs in the boost port would be good.
You have to be careful because some 115mm rods like the RZ use a different OD bigend and a 21mm ID little end. While you can get 21mm OD little end bearings for 16mm pins I have not seen anything with an OD of 21mm suitable for 15mm pins.
I would use an RGV250 bigend bearing as it is a flat cage and silver plated, it is possible to find peak coated bearings but the 115mm Banshee rod ones don't fit the RD400 rod.
Because the original TF/TS crank bigend is only 19mm then when boring it out to 22mm it is possible to offset it so the stroke becomes 48mm for a legal 109.9cc 54x48 bore stroke combination.
One could use a NSR250 cylinder and fit a crankcase reed or use an Aprilia RS125 cylinder with its cylinder reed setup. Either way you would have to make a cylinder head insert the spigoted into the barrel about 3mm.
The Aprilia cylinder has a triple exhaust port, power valve and boysen inlet port.
Team ESE have successfully converted these little Loncin - Monkey bike racing ignitions to 6A 12V units by rewinding the HV side for 12V. With a Scooter Voltage rectifier/regulator and 50V 5600 uf capacitor they make great push and go 12V generators.
Use a Mercedes air/water turbo intercooler water pump that is switched on by a thermal switch on the cylinder head.
So the basic formula is:-
Use a TF/TS100
Fit a rebored cylinder for 109.9cc.
TS gearbox.
RD400 rod and bigend pin.
RGV250 bigend bearing.
KTM 15x20x18mm little end bearing.
2000-2003 RM125 piston
48mm stroke crank bored for a 22mm pin.
Plug old ballance holes with alloy plugs.
Ballance to 50%
Cylinder Spacer/Adaptor plate.
Use a timing wheel to determine the spacer/adaptor plate thickness that positions the port timing about 118 on the transfers and 84 on the exhaust. This may take some juggling.
Them make a special head insert that spigots down into the cylinder for the right squish clearance on the piston.
Forum whore
Ok Rob.
Since my 4 stroke is so totally broken and I have just found a TF engine. I will be doing this. Exactly this. I will sell all the fancy 4 stroke bits to pay for the new build.
Not worried about the Ryger aspect. Just keen to get out on track again and this time on a 2 stroke.
Should be a fun build.
They say it's possible to convert an ordinary 2T engine to the Ryger style fairly easily. So that has got me thinking. It may be some time before the Ryger system is revealed but that does not stop us getting something ready.
So what sort of motor to start with, well I think rotary valve and piston port are out because the pictures of the Ryger show a cylinder reed valve setup. So for what its worth, here are my thoughts about what could be done within the F4 rules.
Start with a good old farm bike TS/TF100 (they still make them new) and fit a rebored cylinder for 109.9cc.
To give myself as much under cylinder volume as possible and room for a cylinder adaptor plate I would use an RD400 rod and RGV250 bigend bearing.
The RD400 rod is 115mm C/C with a 20mm little end so with a KTM125 15x20x19 little end bearing you can use the newer style 54mm pistons with the 15mm pins.
A piston like the 2000-2003 RM125 which has one ring and the ring peg dead central at the back so it runs in the boost port would be good.
You have to be careful because some 115mm rods like the RZ use a different OD bigend and a 21mm ID little end. While you can get 21mm OD little end bearings for 16mm pins I have not seen anything with an OD of 21mm suitable for 15mm pins.
I would use an RGV250 bigend bearing as it is a flat cage and silver plated, it is possible to find peak coated bearings but the 115mm Banshee rod ones don't fit the RD400 rod.
Because the original TF/TS crank bigend is only 19mm then when boring it out to 22mm it is possible to offset it so the stroke becomes 48mm for a legal 109.9cc 54x48 bore stroke combination.
One could use a NSR250 cylinder and fit a crankcase reed or use an Aprilia RS125 cylinder with its cylinder reed setup. Either way you would have to make a cylinder head insert the spigoted into the barrel about 3mm.
The Aprilia cylinder has a triple exhaust port, power valve and boysen inlet port.
Team ESE have successfully converted these little Loncin - Monkey bike racing ignitions to 6A 12V units by rewinding the HV side for 12V. With a Scooter Voltage rectifier/regulator and 50V 5600 uf capacitor they make great push and go 12V generators.
Use a Mercedes air/water turbo intercooler water pump that is switched on by a thermal switch on the cylinder head.
So the basic formula is:-
Use a TF/TS100
Fit a rebored cylinder for 109.9cc.
TS gearbox.
RD400 rod and bigend pin.
RGV250 bigend bearing.
KTM 15x20x18mm little end bearing.
2000-2003 RM125 piston
48mm stroke crank bored for a 22mm pin.
Plug old ballance holes with alloy plugs.
Ballance to 50%
Cylinder Spacer/Adaptor plate.
Use a timing wheel to determine the spacer/adaptor plate thickness that positions the port timing about 118 on the transfers and 84 on the exhaust. This may take some juggling.
Them make a special head insert that spigots down into the cylinder for the right squish clearance on the piston.
Forum whore
Yes, when it's all boiled down it's fairly basic.
1) Crank bored for 22mm pin.
2) Cylinder spacer plate.
3) Spigoted head insert.
Nothing much special, but plenty of potential.
Please post your progress.
Hardcore Biker
Apart from the technology, the second most confusing thing is the secrecy, or the need for it at this time. Frits, and presumably others, has signed a confidential disclosure agreement, with a 100k euro penalty. Fair enough.
However, now Harry has, as part of the homologation process, had to disclose it to his local ASN and from there go to the CIK. Many people involved here, some possibly not even trustworthy. And we still haven't had a leak. I can't see these channels being willing, or even wanting to, to sign a CDA. A mystery here.
Either way, on Jan 1, next year, it will all be revealed, either via the CIK or the fact that they might be commercially available.
Just 3 months to go.
So why the secrecy? One thing I can think of is that by not disclosing it right now, despite the fact that he must have patent protection in the form of a provisional or complete, is that he is protecting himself against any initial commercial competition. So, if TM did get early wind of how it works, they could have submitted their version to the CIK, and dealt with patent infringement stuff later. 45 hp is not going to cut it against 70 hp.
Some Ryger forensic stuff. The side view of the engine, one used for the homologation application, has some funny details.
The reed block housing looks decidedly like that off a Rotax Max, that maybe has been welded (photoshopped?) on to a VM cylinder, after some of the cast in lettering has been machined away. Also the inlet side boss level has also been raised. Nothing wrong with that though in the name of development.
Then a right side view of the Ryger cylinder, showing RYGER cast in. Got to be genuine.
Then a week or so ago, on the Ryger facebook page, another pic (including that handsome Frits), covering most of the cylinder head. But look at the cylinder.
Looks very much like a Rotax cylinder, other than the fact that the external divider between the A and B passages is angled differently. I think that the Rotax cylinder was based on a very similar production road bike cylinder (Aprilia?) which is what they maybe used. Certainly not the cylinder in the homologation application. Hiding a direct injection system?
Who knows? Harry certainly does. And in 3 months we all might know.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.
Forum whore
Yep will post as we go. I am looking forward to it.
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