ESE's works engine tuner

[lodgernz]

The RD400 rod is 115mm C/C with a 20mm little end eye so with a KTM125 15x20x19 little end bearing you can use the newer style 54mm pistons with the 15mm pins.

I have a suspicion that a long rod may not be possible in the Ryger configuration.

[TZ350]

Shopping list for a TF/TS 110

RGV big end bearing:- http://www.ebay.com/itm/201347952437...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

RD400 original 2T2 Rod kit:- http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-RD400...b82d80&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-X-ProX-Y...8ac19d&vxp=mtr

Parts from MotoXparts here in Auckland

2003 RM125 piston:- http://www.motoxparts.co.nz/p/suzuki...on-kit-wossner

http://www.motoxparts.co.nz/p/suzuki...ton-kit-meteor

Spare Ring:- http://www.motoxparts.co.nz/p/suzuki-rm-125-piston-ring

Spare Clips:- http://www.motoxparts.co.nz/p/suzuki...rclips-wossner

Little end bearing:- 15x19x20 http://www.motoxparts.co.nz/p/suzuki...l-bearing-koyo

http://www.motoxparts.co.nz/p/ktm-12...l-bearing-koyo

[Grumph]

I have a suspicion that a long rod may not be possible in the Ryger configuration.

If the homologation papers say 90mm C - C, that's what it has to be....
I'm suspecting a long piston with a ring at top and bottom - and a very low gudgeon height.

[husaberg]

If the homologation papers say 90mm C - C, that's what it has to be....
I'm suspecting a long piston with a ring at top and bottom - and a very low gudgeon height.

Remember how either Frits or Harry said about the friction of the ring and the bore, I say guided, the rod maybe 90mm but the deck height appears normal so there must be a a very super low pin location as you mused, or a guided rod cross head which i favour.
Maybe even ringless Lab type sealed.

[TZ350]

I have a suspicion that a long rod may not be possible in the Ryger configuration.

I think you are right and when the time comes next year or the year after to convert the TS/TF110 to a Ryger configuration, as well as some special piston and spacer plate we will have to change the rod too, not such a biggie in the scheme of things.

[lodgernz]

I'm suspecting a long piston with a ring at top and bottom - and a very low gudgeon height.

My thoughts exactly, except maybe 2 rings top and bottom. Definitely not a crosshead arrangement. No need.

[lodgernz]

Remember how either Frits or Harry said about the friction of the ring and the bore, I say guided, the rod maybe 90mm but the deck height appears normal so there must be a a very super low pin location as you mused, or a guided rod cross head which i favour.
Maybe even ringless Lab type sealed.

Deck height is not quite normal as it is elevated by the base spacer. Again points to a long piston.

[husaberg]

My thoughts exactly, except maybe 2 rings top and bottom. Definitely not a crosshead arrangement. No need.

Need =
A short rod has a very high degree of angularity. Angularity equals friction.

On smaller engines the connecting rod links the piston and the crankshaft directly, but this transmits sideways forces to the piston, since the crankpin (and thus the direction the force is applied) moves from side to side with the rotary motion of the crank. These transverse forces are tolerable in a smaller engine; a larger engine's much greater forces would cause an intolerable degree of wear on the piston and cylinder, as well as increasing overall friction in the engine.wiki

Deck height is not quite normal as it is elevated by the base spacer. Again points to a long piston.

Deck height is as you say taller, so this points to a longer rod, but the rod is at least 20mm shorter than STD. yet the deck height is still taller again. By at least 20mm See where i am going with this?
there is at lest 40-60mm missing. I guess some day we will be let in on the secret what and how it works.

[Grumph]

My thoughts exactly, except maybe 2 rings top and bottom. Definitely not a crosshead arrangement. No need.

Didn't the homologation papers say 2 rings ? I read that as one top and probably one bottom...

[peewee]

Need =
A short rod has a very high degree of angularity. Angularity equals friction. .

ok im lost now. how does 4 rings or even 2 rings eqaul low friction ? is there some sort of special coating being used or some kind of special rings ?

[jasonu]

ok im lost now. how does 4 rings or even 2 rings eqaul low friction ? is there some sort of special coating being used or some kind of special rings ?

Wasn't it said by those in the know that the ring(s) don't touch the piston?

[husaberg]

ok im lost now. how does 4 rings or even 2 rings eqaul low friction ? is there some sort of special coating being used or some kind of special rings ?

Cross heads change the angle to solely up and down they rid the thrust friction due to rod angularity.
That's why modern ringless Compressors use them as they can't allow the gas and the oil to mix otherwise they might explode.

Wasn't it said by those in the know that the ring(s) don't touch the piston?

Yes it was.

[WilDun]

Need =
A short rod has a very high degree of angularity. Angularity equals friction.
I guess some day we will be let in on the secret what and how it works.

If you ask me and judging by the picture of the engine in front of the homologation papers and posted a while ago, I would say that the crosshead/straightline piston rod concept you describe plays no part in the Ryger engine! ie judging by the height of the engine (Ryger?) portrayed in the picture!

Oh and Frits, those are "Kiwifruit" not "Kiwi's" - kiwi fruits stay inside the box, Kiwi "jokers" live outside the box (despite what TZ is suggesting) and I might add, the third picture portrays cheap Italian fakes! - they should just stick to making Ducati's.
Then of course, there is also an obscure flightless bird also which has the cheek to call itself a "Kiwi".
Neil is a Kiwi too but he can fly!

[Frits Overmars]

They say it's possible to convert an ordinary 2T engine to the Ryger style fairly easily. So what sort of motor to start with, well I think rotary valve and piston port are out because the pictures of the Ryger show a cylinder reed valve setup.
To give myself as much under cylinder volume as possible and room for a cylinder adaptor plate I would use an RD400 rod and RGV250 bigend bearing.
The RD400 rod is 115mm C/C with a 20mm little end eye so with a KTM125 15x19x20 little end bearing you can use the newer style 54mm pistons with the 15mm pins.

The Ryger uses a 90 mm C/C rod.You can use a long rod in the Ryger setup, but it is not necessary and it will lead to a rather high engine. And you will need a special piston anyway.

One could use a NSR250 cylinder and fit a crankcase reed or use an Aprilia RS125 cylinder with its cylinder reed setup. The Aprilia cylinder has a triple exhaust port, power valve and boysen inlet port.

Strictly speaking these are Rotax cylinders. There is also a version with a single exhaust port. It's cheaper and it was used on several Ryger prototype engines.
Fitting a crankcase reed will conflict with rygerising your engine.

a week or so ago, on the Ryger facebook page, another pic (including that handsome Frits), covering most of the cylinder head..... Hiding a direct injection system?

Flattery will get you nowhere, Ken. And there is no injection system; the Ryger just uses the 30 mm Dellorto carb that is mandatory for all these KZ kart engines.

[TZ350]

The Ryger uses a 90 mm C/C rod.You can use a long rod in the Ryger setup, but it is not necessary and it will lead to a rather high engine. And you will need a special piston anyway.

The TF/TS100 is a farm bike engine, the Aprilia RS125 cylinder I had in mind is from a road bike and the RD400 115mm C/C rod is mostly about having enough height to fit a spacer/adaptor plate for the modified TF/TS engines water cooled cylinder.

I was expecting to change the rod when Rygerising the engine. And also replace the TF/TS spacer/adapter plate with the Ryger version. It has been obvious for a while that the Ryger piston will be a bespoke item.

Anyway that is all for later, the first step is to get a TF/TS 100cc air cooled engine into watercooled mode. The basics of the conversion is simple but there is a lot of work in the detail.

The big picture steps, successfully water cool a TF/TS100, fit a suitable cylinder as per NZ F4 class rules. Then get it and the ancillaries like frame mounting, digital ignition, 12V generator, water pump all running reliably and sometime next year or the year after when the Ryger details are known, Rygerise it.

No point in sitting around in endless talk waiting until all is revealed when the basics of the project are known and can be started now, laying a solid foundation that is race tested ready for a quick upgrade when the time comes.