ESE's works engine tuner

[polinizei]

I ended up with an alien 3 style with a strongly curved pipe. The first try was 0.8mm. Second and third 1.0mm.
I remember the alien style was a bit tricky in cad drawing.

[polinizei]

Frits you are the math master, so maybe you could answer this RSA question.
How much fresh charge moves from the ducts into cylinder at the rated speed of 13.000 rpm?
I think the time area of all ports is to low, to to move 125ccm from the crank case.
So how much is it realy? 75% of the duct vollume?





@all
...how much fresh charge moves in the ryger @17000rpm/70HP on each rotation, and how much pressure we need for that in the ducts?

[wobbly]

A Delivery Ratio of 1.2 is common,I have seen as high as 1.3 - this would indicate that there is 150 to 160 odd cc
being flowed thru the transfers in one cycle.
Not all of it stays in the cylinder as the scavenging and trapping efficiency are less than unity.

Around BDC at peak power the pipe can pull 1/2 Bar pressure ratio on the cylinder, and this translates to around an average of 1/4 Bar in the cyinder
acting on the transfers.
The case is only slightly above atmospheric for a short period at TPO,so has little effect on the flow at all.

[MotleyCrue]

this translates to around an average of 1/4 Bar in the cylinder
acting on the transfers.
The case is only slightly above atmospheric for a short period at TPO,so has little effect on the flow at all.

1/4 bar is diddly so the Ryger must have more pressure differential, or more transfer area ,or both, to move the flow capabilities from 13500 rpm up to 17000 rpm. Does anyone know where all 11 transfers are located ? There probably aren't 11 in the cylinder wall topside of the piston at BDC, maybe only as many as 7 or 8, maybe less. This makes at least 3 or 4 transfers (4 sounds like a nice even number) unaccounted for.

[wobbly]

The Ryger has an conventional looking pipe, so the pressure ratio at the Ex around BDC , and thus within the cylinder
will be the same.
But - if some of those 11 transfers are located high and connected to the small volume under the piston, and the higher pressure at EPO is used to compress that volume,
then we have the situation that the pressure ratio at "normal " TPO will be far greater in the case than within the cylinder.
The exact opposite to what is seen in a normal 2T.
When the transfers first open we get backflow, as the case pressure is so low and even with a ton of blowdown STA the cylinder pressure
is still above whats in that case.
So I envisage some high transfer ports connected thru lower down holes in the piston to the small case area, separated as we know by the CNC plate
and some sort of seal on a vertically sliding piston guide rod.
The trickery in the sump is still beyond me, that enables safe operation at 30K - but as I inherently believe what Frits has alluded to,its as simple as buggery
and why non of us thought of it before is madening.
More power to Mr H Ryger.

[Flettner]

Bugger the boss, I told him we are doing homers today. Ranting on about making ends meet, if he's not careful, he will meet his end Here we are machining out a crank to stroke 48mm, not sure why?
If he's a good boy we will untie him at the end of the day but he better have ordered the beer!

[seymour14]

Bugger the boss, I told him we are doing homers today. Ranting on about making ends meet, if he's not careful, he will meet his end Here we are machining out a crank to stroke 48mm, not sure why?
If he's a good boy we will untie him at the end of the day but he better have ordered the beer!

That's the spirit!

[TZ350]

Attachment 316151 Attachment 316150

The TF/TS100 is a farm bike engine, the Aprilia RS125 cylinder I had in mind is from a road bike

They say it's possible to convert an ordinary 2T engine to the Ryger style fairly easily. So that has got me thinking.

Follow the link below for the back story on the 6 speed water cooled 32hp Suzuki GP100 build.

Thanks to some very expert engineering help the six speed spacer plate has been made and fits perfectly.

Attachment 315900

Next move is the long rod crankshaft.

The Suzuki V100 2T Scooter cranks have a 48mm stroke and NSR 250 MC21 cylinders are a 54mm bore, 48 x 54 = 109.9cc.

Here we are machining out a crank, not sure why?

The crank is getting a 22mm bigend pin for a 115mm RD400 long rod.



Here is the rest of the story:-

Original 100cc Suzuki GP motor being fitted with a re-plated (re-bored) NSR MC21 cylinder.

God Bless those that had the rules changed to 110cc max over bore allowance so they could use cheap over-sized KT100 pistons without going to the trouble required of de stroking to stay within the old 105cc rule ......

[Flettner]

.

The Suzuki V100 2T Scooter cranks have a 48mm stroke and NSR 250 MC21 cylinders are a 54mm bore, 48 x 54 = 109.9cc.



The crank is getting a 22mm bigend pin for a 115mm RD400 long rod.



Here is the rest of the story:-

Original 100cc Suzuki GP motor being fitted with a re-plated (re-bored) NSR MC21 cylinder.

God Bless those that had the rules changed to 110cc max over bore allowance so they could use cheap over-sized KT100 pistons without going to the trouble required of de stroking to stay within the old 105cc rule ......

Yes, handed to you on a plate Rob, who made that rule up. Anyway the crank is done, pick up any time, don't forget about the gold bars deposited in my off shore account

[ken seeber]

.

God Bless those that had the rules changed to 110cc max over bore allowance so they could use cheap over-sized KT100 pistons without going to the trouble required of de stroking to stay within the old 105cc rule ......

TeeZee,
What is the piston pin diameter you are envisaging to use and or, also, what is the con rod bore diameter?

[Flettner]

I ended up with an alien 3 style with a strongly curved pipe. The first try was 0.8mm. Second and third 1.0mm.
I remember the alien style was a bit tricky in cad drawing.

Intersting, I would like a tight bend chamber like that. I was just going to suck it up and build a set of steel dies as I could use the same pressings on my Autogyro engines. A lot of time and money though. I tried hydro forming once, it ended badly so I gave up.

[jasonu]

Bugger the boss, I told him we are doing homers today. Ranting on about making ends meet, if he's not careful, he will meet his end Here we are machining out a crank to stroke 48mm, not sure why?
If he's a good boy we will untie him at the end of the day but he better have ordered the beer!

I hope you are utilizing free company materials to complete your project.

[richban]

Oh man no mucking around at your end. I will be picking up my 115mm rod tomorrow. Just waiting on the TF crank to turn up then I will be slapping my 109cc TF RS together. Whats your HP prediction of these over square Frankenstein engines Rob?

.

The Suzuki V100 2T Scooter cranks have a 48mm stroke and NSR 250 MC21 cylinders are a 54mm bore, 48 x 54 = 109.9cc.



The crank is getting a 22mm bigend pin for a 115mm RD400 long rod.



Here is the rest of the story:-

Original 100cc Suzuki GP motor being fitted with a re-plated (re-bored) NSR MC21 cylinder.

God Bless those that had the rules changed to 110cc max over bore allowance so they could use cheap over-sized KT100 pistons without going to the trouble required of de stroking to stay within the old 105cc rule ......

[TZ350]

TeeZee, What is the piston pin diameter you are envisaging to use and or, also, what is the con rod bore diameter?

2010 RM125 piston with 15mm piston pin, RD400 rod has a 20mm little end bore.

Whats your HP prediction of these over square Frankenstein engines Rob?

Frankenstein motor Bore x Stroke ... 54 x 48 is much the same ratio as my old Suzuki GP125 at 56 x 50 And the best I saw on the dyno out of that was 32 rear wheel Dyno jet hp.

EngMod2T predicts 30-32 rear wheel hp as measured on a Dyno jet. Not great, I had hoped for 36 but with the water cooling its at least going to be broad spread no fade, reliable all day hp.

[Frits Overmars]

Your philosophies about the Ryger engine make it very tempting for me to react. Alas, I still am not allowed to. But I can't resist re-posting this picture:

I bet you wish that you could push that piston further down. But what would you see? Let me tell you: nothing out of the ordinary.
Even with the piston at BDC you would not notice that it is a Ryger engine...