ESE's works engine tuner

**nitro2tfx** · 3rd October 2015, 13:34

Originally Posted by Frits Overmars

Maybe so; there are lots of things I'd like to measure but it would require more instrumentation than we have available at the moment.

If you ever wish to pursue that additional instrumentation (pressure analyzers, high speed combustion pressure sensors, high speed port pressure sensors), we (TFX Engine Technology Inc,) would be happy to discuss supplying one of our systems to you. Maybe there is another 5 or 10 HP waiting to be picked, or maybe more importantly it would simply be good data documentation to provide to investors, marketers etc. comparing the internal instantaneous dynamics of the Ryger engine, to conventional 2 strokes, and to 4 strokes.

**RomeuPT** · 3rd October 2015, 13:42

Originally Posted by wobbly

The Ryger has an conventional looking pipe, so the pressure ratio at the Ex around BDC , and thus within the cylinder
will be the same.
But - if some of those 11 transfers are located high and connected to the small volume under the piston, and the higher pressure at EPO is used to compress that volume,
then we have the situation that the pressure ratio at "normal " TPO will be far greater in the case than within the cylinder.
The exact opposite to what is seen in a normal 2T.
When the transfers first open we get backflow, as the case pressure is so low and even with a ton of blowdown STA the cylinder pressure
is still above whats in that case.
So I envisage some high transfer ports connected thru lower down holes in the piston to the small case area, separated as we know by the CNC plate
and some sort of seal on a vertically sliding piston guide rod.
The trickery in the sump is still beyond me, that enables safe operation at 30K - but as I inherently believe what Frits has alluded to,its as simple as buggery
and why non of us thought of it before is madening.
More power to Mr H Ryger.

I am anxious to see how can it be done. He is making us feel like we are dumb

70cv in a 125cc with less 80% emissions, if this will be realiable it will put 4 strokes in the trash can

**Flettner** · 3rd October 2015, 14:08

Originally Posted by Frits Overmars

Your philosophies about the Ryger engine make it very tempting for me to react. Alas, I still am not allowed to. But I can't resist re-posting this picture:

I bet you wish that you could push that piston further down. But what would you see? Let me tell you: nothing out of the ordinary.
Even with the piston at BDC you would not notice that it is a Ryger engine...

Ok Frits, I will if you will, here I've pushed the piston down to uncover the ports.
The irony of it, hot sleeve edge might be a good thing after all

**RomeuPT** · 3rd October 2015, 14:23

I am sorry if this is total nonsense, but any rod rotating at 30k rpm would break in pieces, so my ideia is that is just goes up and down.

What about if the rod just puls a ratchet system down, and is forced up by a spring with exact strenght needed to compression stroke at maximum hp?

Like in the pic, but I can't picture that working at 30k, there would be so many problems

**WilDun** · 3rd October 2015, 14:32

Originally Posted by polinizei

Maybe you guys remember that post with a rised C port, some posts ago, where Frits asked for the source...

I may have been the guy who posted about the use of high back boost port, (maybe slightly higher than the exhaust port).
I read about it somewhere, possibly in the British "Motorcycle" magazine and possibly way back in the seventies. - I didn't see a post where Frits asked for the source of the info.

I can't really tell you any more than that and probably don't need to tell you, that those early fast two stroke racers, although they had high horsepower readings, also had exceptionally narrow power bands!

**WilDun** · 3rd October 2015, 14:43

Originally Posted by Flettner

Ok Frits, I will if you will, here I've pushed the piston down to uncover the ports.

Frits, it's now your turn to do likewise!

**TZ350** · 3rd October 2015, 18:50

Page 1320 ....

Maybe not the Ryger but a very informative read.

Originally Posted by philou

Ryger

http://www.pit-lane.biz/t5235-2-stro...-by-tim-hickox

And how to hydroform an expansion chamber.

Originally Posted by Sketchy_Racer

After reading some of the content in the ESE thread, I've become really inspired to take a closer look at hydroforming chambers.

Originally Posted by husaberg

the Site that I will link list the ring locations
http://www.pvlsverige.se/vrm/index/index22.html

I will add to the list later most are rods
but have a look at TKRJ and Prox plus makita can't find the site at the moment or they changed it site for sizes try some of the 250 karts like Rotax can't remember who used to make the pistons for them? some Austrian company have a look at KTM.
Woosner, Wiesco

http://www.mxcomposites.com/con_rod.php
http://www.mxcomposites.com/con_rod.php
http://www.connectingrod.com.tw/ktm.htm
http://www.pro-x.com/downloads/Technical.pdf
http://www.kevinbreedonracing.co.uk/...ts_conrods.asp
http://www.connectingrod.com.tw/honda.htm
http://www.samarin.nl/webshop/index....ewCat&catId=32
http://www.tkrj.co.jp/
http://findebookee.com/c/connecting-rod the one is capt
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/399336/Pictu...ted/HotRod.pdf
http://www.kingrod.com.tw/products.p...t&pc_parent=22
http://www.crankshaftparts.com/index...7_93&limit=100
http://shop.atlanticmotoplex.ca/prod...catalogId=2016
http://jjmachineryonline.com/snowmob...onnecting-rods
http://www.scooter-center.com/scoweb...y2=CAT&lang=en
http://www.bansheedepot.com/products.asp?cat=17
http://http://www.samarin.net/?productos
http://www.pvlsverige.se/vrm/index/index22.html
http://www.con-rod.com.tw/motorcycle-connecting-rod.htm
http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct...MVppLeMVAqjHUA

Originally Posted by husaberg

**TZ350** · 3rd October 2015, 21:03

Originally Posted by ken seeber

Attachment 316216
Jeez, we could make these OR could we? It all comes down to the patent status and tactics, which is all a bit of an unknown to virtually all of us. The main feature of patents is that no-one can “make – use – sell” a patented technology unless they are the patent holder or one who has been given permission to use it, eg a licencee. Lodgernz might be able to comment further

So if Smitty,TZ350 and co made one, even for their own use, it could be deemed to be in breach and Harry could take you to court and try to claim damages.

Talking about patents in general, the way I understand it, once a concept is known a patent protects the patent holders commercial interests but patent law does not stop you using the new knowledge to make your own version of it for your own personal use.

Certainly a patent prevents you from exploiting the new idea for commercial purposes but it cannot prevent you using any new knowledge you have acquired to make improvements to your own lot.

Think home hobbyist making a model steam engine incorporating the latest slide valve technology or the offroader modifying his own vehicle to turbocharging and the latest duel fuel rail technology so as to be more powerful and fuel efficient.

From good old Wiki:- The definition of patent infringement may vary by jurisdiction, but it typically includes using or selling the patented invention. In many countries, a use is required to be commercial (or to have a commercial purpose) to constitute patent infringement.

**WilDun** · 3rd October 2015, 22:54

Originally Posted by TZ350

The way I understand it, once a concept is known a patent does not stop you using that knowledge to make your own version of it for your own use.
Certainly a patent prevents you from exploiting this new knowledge for commercial purposes but it cannot prevent you using that new knowledge to make personal improvements to your own lot.

Yes but if someone was actually using your expensive patent "illegally" and you hadn't sold a lot of them, then would you and your little company have the wherewithal for good lawyers or the time to pursue the patent rights to the ends of the earth (or even to China! or India).
Wagging a finger at them or displaying the 'V' sign from the door of your little workshop won't save you!

**peewee** · 4th October 2015, 04:50

Originally Posted by RomeuPT

I am sorry if this is total nonsense, but any rod rotating at 30k rpm would break in pieces, so my ideia is that is just goes up and down.

What about if the rod just puls a ratchet system down, and is forced up by a spring with exact strenght needed to compression stroke at maximum hp?

Like in the pic, but I can't picture that working at 30k, there would be so many problems

in the photos we've seen it doesnt appear a ratchet system would fit in the normal looking crankcases

**Flettner** · 4th October 2015, 08:09

Originally Posted by Frits Overmars

Your philosophies about the Ryger engine make it very tempting for me to react. Alas, I still am not allowed to. But I can't resist re-posting this picture:
I bet you wish that you could push that piston further down. But what would you see? Let me tell you: nothing out of the ordinary.
Even with the piston at BDC you would not notice that it is a Ryger engine...

To be honest Frits I think we sort of know what's happening down below now, how about turning the camera on the cylinder head (combustion chamber). Please and thankyou.

**Frits Overmars** · 4th October 2015, 09:22

Originally Posted by Lightbulb

.. a conversion is just a new piston,conrod, spacer/valve plate and some cylinder lower end rework.

Yep. Well, just about. There are some minor appliances handling crankcase breathing etc, but as far as the fundamentals, you nailed it Neil.

**Frits Overmars** · 4th October 2015, 09:25

Originally Posted by Grumph

... can we take this as confirmation that there is a reed valve somewhere in the inlet tract ?

Clear as mud, aint it? I even gave away where this 'somewhere' is.

**Frits Overmars** · 4th October 2015, 09:33

Originally Posted by nitro2tfx

If you ever wish to pursue that additional instrumentation (pressure analyzers, high speed combustion pressure sensors, high speed port pressure sensors), we (TFX Engine Technology Inc,) would be happy to discuss supplying one of our systems to you. Maybe there is another 5 or 10 HP waiting to be picked, or maybe more importantly it would simply be good data documentation to provide to investors, marketers etc. comparing the internal instantaneous dynamics of the Ryger engine, to conventional 2 strokes, and to 4 strokes.

I do not usually respond to commercials, but a dutch acquaintance of mine is using TFX and I must say the stuff is good, the support is good and the coaching is good.
I may take you up on your offer in due time

.