ESE's works engine tuner

[steamroller]

Sure thing, you are out, but the bottom line is that vertical shake reduction really is the aim of the balance factor
chosen to work with the chassis natural resonance.
Saying vertical shake is a non issue is simply bollocks.
And in all cases of a near vertical cylinder this necessitates a highly overbalanced crankshaft ( around 80% Manx, less for a "road " single ) to nullify the vertical component.
You disagreed with Frits on this and I am fully defending his assertions.
So I have now also disagreed with him about his graphical analysis of rod force resultants, due to combustion pressure magnitude Vs mechanical inertial forces.
Im cringing awaiting the sky falling in on my head.

Time for your pills i hope that brings you back down to earth

[TZ350]

Page 1360 ....

Some of the F5 50's that people have built.

14.6 is the most i'v heard off , dave is a master

Team ESE have dynoed a few 50's when I can find the original posts I will paste them below.

Fixer 13.6 hp

The ESE boys might have only half a clue, but it's a good half. And they have a functioning dyno now. With the addition of a small aluminium plate to raise the barrel, a small mod to the exhaust manifold and a little fiddling with the ignition timing, my Aprilia RS50 with it's Conti pipe and Doppler top end has gone from 10hp to 13.6hp. Woo hoo! Evidence below:

Attachment 297225

Cotswald touching 14

Thanks Tee Zee for letting me put the 50 on your Dyno, ... happy with the nearly 14, could you post the graph for me as I forgot to take a photo in my haste to get home and strip the bee atch.

Sure,

Attachment 310162

There you go.

Gigglebutton ... Av gas Red line, NOS Blue line.

Attachment 237930Attachment 237929

After a bit of a thrash on the dyno....... Red is the old curve, Blue new.
Well worth the hours worked on it. Next step a better ignition. Thanks guys

Buckets4me 14hp

Attachment 288388 Attachment 288389

There are a few F5 projects on the go, this is Buckets4me and his RG50. And as far as the Team goes, his pretty much sets the bench mark.

NedKellys 12hp

NedKellys 50.
Attachment 294606Attachment 294602

11.0 red line is Ex opens 87 deg atdc duration 186 deg and Frits pipe.
12.0 blue line Ex opens 81 deg atdc duration 186 deg and Fritz pipe.

And a very clever F4 bike.

Big day today bike is running up real nice . Would like to thank all gpr boys for this build really nice work

Attachment 317224

I very much admire the work that has gone into this bike and engine.

Check with TZ, so long as the results are posted on KB he always seems happy to run the dyno (DynoJet) for a 2T Bucket.

We will bring it would be good to see what it's at riding it i think it will be round 25 at this stage just don't want it to blow to bits

If you are bringing it up for the 2 hour I would be very happy to help you run it up on the dyno.

Below are post links to some of the development work done making the cylinder for this very clever bike.

You will have to click on the link to view the whole post and pictures, they are worth a look.

... hope to have it running in the next week or so.
Attachment 315108Attachment 315109Attachment 315110

Barrel and sleeve together, Head needs a spark plug tap put down it and then adjusted for height.

Mostly milled till I got to the angled fins, then I just cut them out on the bandsaw for that classic GPR homebuilt look...

Meanwhile... Sleeve has sprouted wings.

Yep folks, still a happening thing, and I can see an end in sight now too.

Latest developments are 6 fins, these will snap fit into grooves machined around the barrel for good engagement. Then welded down the fins seam, or welded to the exhaust port, depending on their placement.

We are having a crack at a two stroke conversion GPR125.

[husaberg]

Here is the Honda formula used on the narrow angle twins ie Bros and so forth.
Honda incorporated this split-crankpin technique in both the VT-series and in the RS750 dirt-track racing engine, Bros, Hawk GT, Steed, Africa twin. and so forth.
In order to find the correct crankpin offset angle, we subtract twice the cylinder vee angle from 180.
Thus, in the case of a 52-degree vee angle Bros , we subtract (2 X 52) = 104 from 180 to get a 76-degree angle between the two offset crankpins.


The 45 degree V angle one is this 90 degrees offset.

[ken seeber]

Frits,
Some where on the Kiwi biker you mentioned about the way a high speed
engine runs with very little acceleration from the tdc to ex opening,
but that the remaining piston momentum from ex open to bdc is where
energy is put into the stroke cycle.
Have you done or do you have any information about rotational
acceleration of 2 stroke single cylinder engines ?
If I have a hall effect sensor, am I likely to see something between the
two different engines, ?
Will I be able to see a loaded engine state and an under loaded engine
state if I recorded these and graphed the rotation from 4 points ?
Neil

Neil,
I think you a referring to the effect of crankshaft cyclic speed change and the possible effect on the true openings and durations. Not to sure about a Hall effect sensor, but an optical type might be more suitable. Well out of my knowledge in this area. At Orbital we used to mount a 360 T encoder wheel, say around dia 300) on the crank, triggered with a RS optical sensor, for in-cycle data logging. To me, I think that if you were to compare the crank position vs time over a single rotation, one would need this number of teeth to give sufficient resolution, plus of course a suitable storage oscilloscope or acquisition system. With this info, one could then compare the EO, TO event tgimings to the crank position. Then it might be that a 192 deg duration might be less or more than this value.
One key thing though, is the inertia of the crank and associated rotating bits eg flywheel, or in your case, the prop. An infinite flywheel would show no cyclic speed variation. This raises the question as to whether the engine actually run with an infinite flywheel.

Piston plugs. Here is a pic of a type that we have made. Not a body of revolution, but one shaped(3D) to the adjacent skirt profile, therefore requiring indexing. This used a material more expensive than PEEK. Results of this type have been shown previously in this thread, with good results. Surface finish looks so shitty in the pic, but it was done on a manual in a special fixture......I'll call them oil retention grooves.

[wobbly]

OK I have taken the meds, but anyone trying to get past me saying vertical vibes are a non issue is dreaming.
Same as the last time I went off when someone tried to assert "we dont have time to blip the downchange in a bucket ".
The response then ,as it is now, bullshit.

[seymour14]

Best thing about this world is no two people do the same things, if we did. what a boring shithole we would live in.

We'll stick to winning, there's plenty else you lot can do...

[mr bucketracer]

OK I have taken the meds, but anyone trying to get past me saying vertical vibes are a non issue is dreaming.
Same as the last time I went off when someone tried to assert "we dont have time to blip the downchange in a bucket ".
The response then ,as it is now, bullshit.

here we go again

[lodgernz]

Here is the Honda formula used on the narrow angle twins ie Bros and so forth.
Honda incorporated this split-crankpin technique in both the VT-series and in the RS750 dirt-track racing engine, Bros, Hawk GT, Steed, Africa twin. and so forth.
In order to find the correct crankpin offset angle, we subtract twice the cylinder vee angle from 180.
Thus, in the case of a 52-degree vee angle Bros , we subtract (2 X 52) = 104 from 180 to get a 76-degree angle between the two offset crankpins.


The 45 degree V angle one is this 90 degrees offset.

Interesting. If I remember correctly, Phil Irving said somewhere many many years ago that 76* was the perfect angle for a V-twin.

[FastFred]

We'll stick to winning, there's plenty else you lot can do...

Its all about winning, you Morons!



Ok, so there can only be one winner, but lots of us can Party and you are invited .....



Party - Party well at least a few beers with friends anyway.

[wobbly]

Winning, its great.
Especially when you go pole, win 5 of 5 and are nearly 2 secs a lap faster than the whole field.
Dennis Sharlett on my TZ400 destroying the Pre 82 field and the lap record ( along with pre 89 F3 ) at the Shorai.

[seymour14]

Winning, its great.
Especially when you go pole, win 5 of 5 and are nearly 2 secs a lap faster than the whole field.
Dennis Sharlett on my TZ400 destroying the Pre 82 field and the lap record ( along with pre 89 F3 ) at the Shorai.

Good on Dennis.

Were you in the sidecar?

[steamroller]

OK I have taken the meds, but anyone trying to get past me saying vertical vibes are a non issue is dreaming.
Same as the last time I went off when someone tried to assert "we dont have time to blip the downchange in a bucket ".
The response then ,as it is now, bullshit.

HA HA the only thing that blips is your big head. what did you say about any thing around 30 hp at 10500 rpm you would suck them off time to pay up boy

[wobbly]

So smartarse show us the dyno chart showing an aircooled 125 making anything like that power at 10500.
And no I wasnt in the sidecar I was in the pit tuning the thing.

[seymour14]

So smartarse show us the dyno chart showing an aircooled 125 making anything like that power at 10500.
And no I wasnt in the sidecar I was in the pit tuning the thing.

Good for you, but don't take credit for others ability to win because of their talents.

Dennis also rode a bike at Greymouth last year with an engine that we helped to build, and won all three races. We don't claim those as our own.

If I was too, I could bleat on about world titles and national titles as well, but most of us on these forums could say the same also.

I come in here to try and glean some knowledge, but most the time I see write ups that just sound like team talk up, so end up having to try and solve it ourselves.

My advice to this thread is to start talking in common language, preferably English, and speak laymens terms. Most of us are doers, not talkers.

[mr bucketracer]

Good for you, but don't take credit for others ability to win because of their talents.

Dennis also rode a bike at Greymouth last year with an engine that we helped to build, and won all three races. We don't claim those as our own.

If I was too, I could bleat on about world titles and national titles as well, but most of us on these forums could say the same also.

I come in here to try and glean some knowledge, but most the time I see write ups that just sound like team talk up, so end up having to try and solve it ourselves.

My advice to this thread is to start talking in common language, preferably English, and speak laymens terms. Most of us are doers, not talkers.

this is the new Zealand way , well said