ESE's works engine tuner

[wobbly]

The class for the Ryger is KZ2, being the International 125 spec class, but they have not yet received homologation status.
So no they are not at this time legal to compete.
The process is not far away from completion, and as soon as it happens I have access to the CIK homologation portal to get all the papers that
show the internal dimensions and photos for tech purposes.

[Haufen]

I think 16 bar limitation on the 4 stroke was based on having X amount of air and exhaust in the cylinder to make it run as desired, so a 2 stroke with that same X amount of air and exhaust in the cylinder should also near 16 bar, but yes it might take more boost to get that X amount of air and exhaust into a 2 stroke. A regular tuned pipe couldn't get that much into the cylinder or we'd all be riding 100+ HP 125 s with regular spark ignition that only turned 13000 rpm.

No matter a naturally aspirated HCCI making 14-16 bar doesnt exist as far as I can tell unless the Ryger has achieved it. It is fathomable that some unique condition exists allowing it at full throttle but then how would it be achieved at other conditions with just mechanical controls and likely non-moving mechanical controls.

I agree. If the engine would be able to breathe 4 times what the RSA did (and in a shorter period of time, as the peak power hp is ~17k), then we could have 16 bar BMEP in the two-stroke. This would also mean that the peak power would be about 200bar, too. That's current car-technology diesel peak cylinder pressure. So everything would have to be as rigid as in a diesel engine. And nobody wants extra weight in a race engine, especially if you can have more power and lower peak pressures if you do not use HCCI.

[Niels Abildgaard]

Dave, I can't answer this one directly. When I was at Orbital we had a couple of 3 cyl 1.2 litre engine plated by Kawasaki. Call it electrofusion or WESC (Wire Explosion Spray Coating). We just used regular chromed rings, so can't answer the reverse.

It is a really neat process. Wires, successively of molybdenum and high carbon steel (piano wire) of around dia 1.5 mm, were tensioned along the cylinder centreline, and given 20 kV or so. The steel particles would hit the cylinder or the previous coat, cooling instantly to become pure martensite, a very hard form of steel. This was effectively embedded in a background matrix of the moly, which acted as a from of lubricant. No chemicals, but all I remember was the impressive bang, despite the cylinder being encased in some sort of sound proof container. This was back in late 80s, so all I can really remember was the bang. Nothing wrong with that.

Have You written more about being at Orbital?
It is one of the places I would have liked to work at.
Last two stroke breath.

[speedpro]

Assuming of course that crank/rod geometry and piston velocity profiles are the same, then those are the numbers required. If the Ryger has some method of extracting more power from the same fuel burn then maybe not. I think it extracts that power way more efficiently, hence the smaller radiator pointing to less power being lost to the cooling system. If the emissions are reduced then possibly less or no squish area trapping unburnt fuel/air which could point to some other method to increase fuel burn rate(HCCI?). To efficiently extract useful work from that speedier burn, without trapping hot high pressure gas in the chamber where the heat is lost to the cooling system, it must be allowed to expand in a way that work is done.

[husaberg]

Assuming of course that crank/rod geometry and piston velocity profiles are the same, then those are the numbers required. If the Ryger has some method of extracting more power from the same fuel burn then maybe not. I think it extracts that power way more efficiently, hence the smaller radiator pointing to less power being lost to the cooling system. If the emissions are reduced then possibly less or no squish area trapping unburnt fuel/air which could point to some other method to increase fuel burn rate(HCCI?). To efficiently extract useful work from that speedier burn, without trapping hot high pressure gas in the chamber where the heat is lost to the cooling system, it must be allowed to expand in a way that work is done.

Ryger homologation form lists the Combustion chamber as being a semi circle
Oddly the few other homologation I have looked at say hemispherical with squish.
So I don't think its a translation issue.
it is 11cc for both so I guess this is a homologation requirement to have a caped compression ratio.

[wobbly]

I dont think we can assume " crank/rod geometry and piston velocity profiles are the same ", as the Ryger has a 90mm rod with a 54.5mm stroke
and this combination is somehow capable of 30,000 rpm.
How could this be achieved with what we regard as a normal rod and crank, as its never been done previously, so something must be different.
The closest so far would be the 100cc kart engines that had around 48mm to 50mm stroke with super light components and they exploded with monotonous
regularity at 20,000 rpm and had a severely short lifespan at at that level.

And yes the KZ2 regs have a combustion space limited to 11cc in the chamber, and is measured with a plug gauge inserted and measured as 13cc to the top of this gauge.

[husaberg]

I dont think we can assume " crank/rod geometry and piston velocity profiles are the same ", as the Ryger has a 90mm rod with a 54.5mm stroke
and this combination is somehow capable of 30,000 rpm.
How could this be achieved with what we regard as a normal rod and crank, as its never been done previously, so something must be different.
The closest so far would be the 100cc kart engines that had around 48mm to 50mm stroke with super light components and they exploded with monotonous
regularity at 20,000 rpm and had a severely short lifespan at at that level.

And yes the KZ2 regs have a combustion space limited to 11cc in the chamber, and is measured with a plug gauge inserted and measured as 13cc to the top of this gauge.

I was reading something about Phil Irving the other day, it seems the first engines he designed were two stroke and he also worked on a swash plate crankshaft engine.

Irving's first engineering job started in 1922 working for the Australian engineer Anthony Michell at the firm of Crankless Engines Ltd in Fitzroy, Victoria.At the firm worked under both Michell and engineer T.L. Sherman. Irving said: "It was the greatest stroke of luck imaginable that I started work under two such eminent men..."

Its also seems it was he who drew up the EMC.

At the 1960 Isle of Man TT Races, Dr Josef Ehrlich, the owner of Ehrlich Motor Cycles (EMC Motorcycles) commissioned Irving to 'reverse-engineer' an MZ 125cc racing engine supplied by Ehrlich and to produce the working drawings of a water-cooled variant which became the 1961 EMC 125cc water-cooled single cylinder racing engine

[tjbw]

I was reading something about Phil Irving the other day, it seems the first engines he designed were two stroke and he also worked on a swash plate crankshaft engine.

Its also seems it was he who drew up the EMC.

So should Phil get the credit for the EMC boost ports,?

These were like appendices off the cylinder bore, fed by ports on the piston. I was going to say they were less usefull than an appendix, but I just noticed that wobbly spent time at EMC, and he says they increased the power!

[tjbw]

Ryger homologation form lists the Combustion chamber as being a semi circle
Oddly the few other homologation I have looked at say hemispherical with squish.
So I don't think its a translation issue.
it is 11cc for both so I guess this is a homologation requirement to have a caped compression ratio.

Ryger uses the VM KZ engine head, the homologation data for that engine also says that the combustion chamber shape is "semicircle" though the drawing shows that it is flat near the spark plug. Perhaps the shape is a truncated hemisphere, with small squishband.

[husaberg]

So should Phil get the credit for the EMC boost ports,?

These were like appendices off the cylinder bore, fed by ports on the piston. I was going to say they were less usefull than an appendix, but I just noticed that wobbly spent time at EMC, and he says they increased the power!

Walter Kaden as far as I know drew up the 3rd port, or at least took credit for it design from a minion employed by MZ

Ryger uses the VM KZ engine head, the homologation data for that engine also says that the combustion chamber shape is "semicircle" though the drawing shows that it is flat near the spark plug. Perhaps the shape is a truncated hemisphere, with small squishband.

bummer thought there was something in that.

[tjbw]

Walter Kaden as far as I know drew up the 3rd port, or at least took credit for it design from a minion employed by MZ


bummer thought there was something in that.

The boost ports I am talking about were not connected to the crankcase like transfer ports. They were two isolated chambers. In theory they filled with mixture when piston was approaching BDC, then they discharged into the cylinder after they were uncovered by the piston crown.

http://rustybikes.hostingsiteforfree...emc-engine.jpg

[husaberg]

The boost ports I am talking about were not connected to the crankcase like transfer ports. They were two isolated chambers. In theory they filled with mixture when piston was approaching BDC, then they discharged into the cylinder after they were uncovered by the piston crown.

http://rustybikes.hostingsiteforfree...emc-engine.jpg

He can have those plus the half moon combustion chamber.
There is a tie in with the leaking of MZ information and Rotax as well maybe via EMC

[SwePatrick]

Sorry to bring this one up again.
But as i tend to analyze things over and over again.
I haven´t made any more dynopulls, but!
If you look at the the torquecurve, suspiciously flat huh?
My dyno is a former kartdyno and it contains an adjustable clutch, one can adjust clampingforce with turning the screws for the springs tighter.
I have verified this, at when torque flattens out, the rotationsspeed between engine and dynowheels isn´t 'locked'.
Engine revs up faster than flywheel, in short terms: clutch in dyno slips!
I have locked the clutch in engine as i didn´t want this problem *lol*
There are more power hidden correcting this. =)

A long time ago i spoked about my Honda MT5 engine.
You said i should get back to you with news.
Now i finally got some worth telling about.
I now own a dyno that´s measuring at the enginesprocket.
And this is the first pull ever with this engine in my bench.

I have spent a couple of weeks with a smaller engine to sort things out.
The small engine(66cc MT5) produced with fairly low tune in cylinder a healthy 19hp at 11200rpm with a worn out piston but with a really good register.
It was equipped with an old Autisa cylinder bored up to 45.5mm, just portmatched it to crankcase and grinded off some debris in all ports.
Keihin round throtte 27mm
'derbi design' reed.(tnx Wobbly)
Morbidelli pipe(homemade copy)

However, this was my dynomule, nothing to fancy.

Now to my serious MT5 engine that i´ll post a dynoscreenshot of in this post.
This engine is built to not make a ny worldrecords in torque as i want to be kind and not stress the 'under dimensioned' clutch/gearbox.
Setup:

Honda MT5 engine 5speed.(6speed breakes very easily i noticed)
132cc
6 disc clutch
MT8 crankshaft with 110mm samarin rod.(stroked to 50mm)
Kawasaki KX 125 -86 cylinder bored to 58mm(Woessner CR144 piston)
A lot of porting (199/138/138/140 durations)
Derbi design reed.
Keihin PWM 40mm, slightly modded.
Ignitech ignition, ran at the first pull(screenshot) exactly the same curve as my small 66cc engine, just raised rev,stop.
Homemade combustionchamber insert.
Homemade pipe, Actually built just with 'feeling', no calculations at all.
A lot of welding has been done to the crankcase to accept crankshaft and cylinder, Finally coated crankcase to block out some heat from gearbox.

And about the dynopull,, i hadn´t connected cooling so i just went for a quick to see if ignition worked.
When i realized it did work i let of the throtttle a bit at about ~11000rpm.
Things were much faster than the small engine, i couldn´t keep up *lol*
I also gave it full throttle at about ~8000rpm.

The weather corrections was a bit off when making screenshot, the final number is actually a little bit higher.
And remember, dyno reports in HP and Lbf-ft.

Screenshots:



There is some tuning left as this was the first pull ever with ignitech on this engine.
Previously had PVL(458)
I aim for 40hp+ at sprocket, it was 39.09 in corrected hp in this pull and 17.xxlbf.ft in torque.
44 should be a cool number as Derbi produced that also , i got a small advantage as i got 8cc more.

Rgds
Patrick

Edit:
A picture of actual engine in dyno:

[husaberg]

Sorry to bring this one up again.
But as i tend to analyze things over and over again.
I haven´t made any more dynopulls, but!
If you look at the the torquecurve, suspiciously flat huh?
My dyno is a former kartdyno and it contains an adjustable clutch, one can adjust clampingforce with turning the screws for the springs tighter.
I have verified this, at when torque flattens out, the rotationsspeed between engine and dynowheels isn´t 'locked'.
Engine revs up faster than flywheel, in short terms: clutch in dyno slips!
I have locked the clutch in engine as i didn´t want this problem *lol*
There are more power hidden correcting this. =)

Is that a Dyna trigger on the ignition?

[JustHarry]

Hi guys. i have recently(today) rooted my kr150 cylinder and piston. i put the piston in backwards and the rings got a little intimate with the exhaust port.(im sure you can imagine what that does to the cylinder wall) i have one option of resleving the barrel. have any of you done this before. whats involved and what sort of sleeve did you use. i have a friendly engineer neighbor so that makes doing the sleeving a little easier. what do you think?
or... is there any kr150 engine bits or parts bikes for sale around?

Cheers Harry