ESE's works engine tuner

[bucketracer]

The Dry Sump and Gear Oiler, not to sure how well this idea will work so I am going to try it on the old air cooled engine first.

Interesting project, really sort of getting out there. TeeZee I think the later TZ250 and TZR had a similar gearbox oiling system but I can't find any pictures of it, I will keep looking, hopefully someone has one and can post a few pictures of the gearbox oil circulation system.

[karter444]

Wobbly
as the exhaust floor and lower corners have been welded do you think that you could widen the A port or make the angled bridge more vertical ie make the a port more rectangular in shape .
Whats the ideal width for the bridge between the B and C port now that it doesn't support the ring gap
cheers

[TZ350]

Interesting project, the later TZ250 and TZR had a similar gearbox oiling system, hopefully someone has one and can post a few pictures of the gearbox oil circulation system.

It would be great to know more about it, I would love to see a few pictures, it would be very helpful to know if I am on the right track with the way I am setting up the dry sump oiling system.

[husaberg]

It would be great to know more about it, I would love to see a few pictures, it would be very helpful to know if I am on the right track with the way I am setting up the dry sump oiling system.

Not totally sure as I have never had one apart but pretty sure the NSR250 has a pumped gearbox oiling system.
later
http://edetuckracing.blogspot.co.nz/...i-finally.html

Interesting project, really sort of getting out there. TeeZee I think the later TZ250 and TZR had a similar gearbox oiling system but I can't find any pictures of it, I will keep looking, hopefully someone has one and can post a few pictures of the gearbox oil circulation system.

Not a great article as it only mentions it briefly but there is a pic of the cluster.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1130251631
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1130252650

Try a Parts fiche or a manual for either the TZ TZR or RS250 or NSR250.
http://www.risingsuncycles.com/pdf_partsbooks.htm

[TZ350]

Thanks Husa, its encouraging that both Honda and Yamaha did it. If anyone has one apart I would love to see some photos or more information on how the oil holes are arranged for oiling the gears.

[JX.]

Someone was interested of my engine so I'll post info of it.
Back in the days when I bought my Derbi with 50cc (D50B0) Engine, I wanted to tune it of course. Started from small things such as exhaust, cdi, carb...
Then I wanted to rebuild/tune an engine with more power.

Bought used engine for 30€
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...210-WA0077.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...210-WA0055.jpg
The gearbox was in perfect shape, crank was full of rust, no cylinder, clutch is too used.

Then the rebuild started, first I wanted to make sure that there is no steps in begin of transfers with the new 80cc cylinder (50mm Bore, 40mm stroke)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...8HMFe94i8T.jpg
Fixed:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0315130513.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...pler_ENDRC.jpg
I had my old crankshaft already disassembled because the 18mm crankpin had snick on it as you can see in the picture.
No problem, bought new rod for it and assembled it.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0321074734.jpg

Repainted & smoothed
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0328103103.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0910112416.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0330123211.jpg

Result:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...911_192926.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../photoshop.jpg
Specs:

Engine: Derbi D50B0
Carb: Oko PWK 28mm
Reedvalve: VForce3
Intake manifold: Honda CR85
Cylinder: Airsal "80cc"(50mm bore) with stock 183* exhaust port
Crankshaft: Doppler Endurance(40mm stroke) with Malossi conrod(90mm) and SKF C3 Tn9 bearings
Ignition: MVT Digital Direct (250g flywheel, Digital), NGK B9EG sparkplug)
Exhaust: Voca Racing "80cc" carbon



So there is a lot of improving to do with the cylinder for example, I do not have any exp. with Nikasil plated cylinders, I've tried once to increase the timing of exhaust port in my old seized cylinder with Dremel and high RPM but at the end the plating chipped a bit. I'm not sure if I should try again with diamond bits. I was thinking to increase the exhaust timing to 196*, reshape the exhaustport and enlarge/finish the exhaust channel.

[TZ350]

Interesting project, great pictures. On the very few plated cylinders I have ported I marked the height I wanted then using a Dremel with a pink stone. I ground the cylinder edge of the port up to the line.

I ground it as if it was a big chamfer for the rings. That way the plating had a chamfered edge to it for the ring. Then I worked on the inside of the port like you normally would. The plating lasted long enough for dyno testing and then if the cylinder was any good I had it re plated.

Another approach has been to raise the barrel until the exhaust port timing is where I want it and then fill the top of the transfers with Devcon epoxy glue until the blowdown time area between the exhaust and transfers was correct for the anticipated rpm and power output. The bottom edge of the transfer is lowered and given a big chamfer. The head is spigoted down into the cylinder to get the correct squish. For the plating and port edges a Dremel with pink ball and taper stones works well.

I like your work.

[wobbly]

The whole idea of filling the floor and the bottom corner rads was to reduce the short circuiting from the A port, so widening this
I didnt want to do.
As it turned out by widening and raising the B ports, there was plenty of transfer STA ( easy with a long stroker ) so it wasnt needed.
I made the bridges next to the boost port the same as the A/B at 3mm.
The EX side walls are angled from the narrower width below TPO out to 70% bore,and with the big width of the Aux top edges it was again easy to
get plenty of blowdown STA to match the 72 Hp transfers due to tons of bore area in the long stroke configuration.
The only issue with the 72mm stroke is that spinning it to 11,000 is sacrilege on the big end life, so the whole thing is designed to run to 10500 max
with plenty of power on the upside to help acceleration when dropping low in revs after the big gearchange splits of the MX ratios.
Alot cheaper than getting special gears made.

[husaberg]

Thanks Husa, its encouraging that both Honda and Yamaha did it. If anyone has one apart I would love to see some photos or more information on how the oil holes are arranged for oiling the gears.

Aprilia GP bikes has a pressure feed gearbox I believe as well, Frits might shear it details (get it)
There is a few pics. from a brief look arround at other systems. it looks like there is very similar systems used, to what you have designed.
First pic is some form of us style Honda crusier, second is a Honda V4. third is a F650 BMW, Forth is a random generic pic

I think both the Honda and Yamaha feed through the center of the shafts with a gear pump not sure if the autolube pump will have enough flow? what is the fully open flow rate of the one you are using?
Pitbikes and CRF50 have nice little gear pumps that drive straight of the primary gear. I have a Takakawa uprated one here somewhere, you are welcome to it if you want it.


Page 39 onwards here Rob
http://www.slideshare.net/EvanDeCire...tz125-94-tz250

[Frits Overmars]

Interesting project, really sort of getting out there. TeeZee I think the later TZ250 and TZR had a similar gearbox oiling system but I can't find any pictures of it, I will keep looking, hopefully someone has one and can post a few pictures of the gearbox oil circulation system.

Will you settle for a 1968 Yamaha RA31A (17000 rpm 125 cc W-four)? Click 3 times on the picture and you'll see the row of oil bores in the upper case.

[TZ350]

The Dry Sump and Gear Oiler, not to sure how well this idea will work so I am going to try it on the old air cooled engine first.

Attachment 317734 Attachment 317736

The whole build can be seen by following the backstory posts like a trail of bread crumbs.

Grumph gave me the original ideas of what to do.

Will you settle for a 1968 Yamaha RA31A (17000 rpm 125 cc W-four)? Click 3 times on the picture and you'll see the row of oil bores in the upper case.

Thanks Frits

There is a few pics. from a brief look around at other systems. it looks like there is very similar systems used, to what you have designed.

I think both the Honda and Yamaha feed through the center of the shafts with a gear pump not sure if the autolube pump will have enough flow? what is the fully open flow rate of the one you are using?

Thanks Husa



This one shows the gear bearings being directly lubricated as well as the gear teeth. And it is maybe something I can try to do with the water cooled NSR/GP six speeder. I would have to have the shafts annealed so I could drill them then re hardened, might be worth doing.



Hi Husa, yes my air cooled test engine is more like this one where just the gear teeth are directly lubricated and everything else is just good luck. I am not sure if Frits's RA31A Yamaha is more like the first or second oiling system.



The current plan is to have the oil drain back into a 1L mini bike fuel tank and pump it up to the gear box gears with a small 1-2L/min water fountain pump or a diaphragm pulse pump or maybe both in series for volume and pulsed flow. Or maybe the auto lube pump could be replaced with a mini bike oil pump like the one Husaburg posted a picture of.

[Frits Overmars]

.. my air cooled test engine is more like this one where just the gear teeth are directly lubricated and everything else is just good luck.
I am not sure if Frits's RA31A Yamaha is more like the first or second oiling system.

Yamaha did not rely on luck back then. I couldn't find an appropriate photo of the RA31A's multipoint lubrication system, but here's a picture of the identical system on its bigger brother, the 250 cc RD05A four-cylinder. By the way, my all-time favorite Yamaha, the simple RD56 twin, already had a similar system (click 3 times to enlarge).

[TZ350]

a few pictures of a 1970's water cooled 4 cylinder rotary valve 125cc Yamaha road racer, 42 RWHP at 18,000rpm photoed by Chambers at the classic meet.

Certainly nothing is left to chance with the engine auto lube system.

[husaberg]

Certainly the nothing left to chance with the engine auto lube system.

Its almost spaghetti
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/at...9&d=1330253931
Attachment 258589
I can't help musing that of you are going the spray bar technique with a low pressure and output pump Rob, it might be best to have the pump feeding both ends?

The current plan is to have the oil drain back into a 1L mini bike fuel tank and pump it up to the gear box gears with a small 1-2L/min water fountain pump or a diaphragm pulse pump or maybe both in series for volume and pulsed flow. Or maybe the auto lube pump could be replaced with a mini bike oil pump like the one Husaburg posted a picture of.

If you you a aluminium resivour finned it will cool better plus plasic isn't a fan of heat, you can also even spray/splash some cool oil onto the back of the crankcase wall.
One pump should be more than enough KISS

[TZ350]

If you you a aluminium reservoir finned it will cool better.

I have been toying with the idea of making a catch tank out of a piece of finned turbo intercooler pipe.



If I put a sleeve over the finns and blow air through it with a fan then I could have a really good air cooled catch tank.



I also have one of these auto trans coolers that I could fit a fan to. Ok for the 110cc NSR water cooler but just none to sure about the legality of using it on the 125 which must be air cooled.