ESE's works engine tuner

[jonny quest]

TZ350. IF your daring, warm up your test bike fully on the dyno. Get your baseline.

Drain transmission of oil.

Make a dyno run.

You should be able to make a run without hurting anything. I'm about 99% positive no harm will come.

Reason I'm so sure? I built a CRF150 for a customer, it has separate oil chambers for the crank and trans. This was a new motor that was completely stripped down. Oil was put in crank side, but my helper didn't realize there was a separate spot for the trans.

Kid ran 2 full motos with no oil in trans. Only thing that happened was one of the gears started to squeel when freewheeling from it not being in engaged position when not in that particular selection.

After realizing it didn't have any oil, I took it all apart. Only thing I had to do was buff shaft a bit. No parts had to be replaced.

[lodgernz]

Opinions please:
How much horsepower would a 150cc 4T bucket have to produce to do 178Km/Hr on a 2.4Km race circuit? Presumably on the straight, which might be 0.7Km.

[Frits Overmars]

Opinions please:
How much horsepower would a 150cc 4T bucket have to produce to do 178Km/Hr on a 2.4Km race circuit? Presumably on the straight, which might be 0.7Km.

My guess: 29 rear wheel-hp. A bit much for a 150 cc foul-stroke, isn't it?

[husaberg]

Opinions please:
How much horsepower would a 150cc 4T bucket have to produce to do 178Km/Hr on a 2.4Km race circuit? Presumably on the straight, which might be 0.7Km.

24hp plus super aerodynamics. or a water cooled cylinder and ..............................
Note this was the 130cc rules days Speedpro and Kicka will have memories of this one being destroyed in a crash at Wigram.

[kel]

Opinions please:
How much horsepower would a 150cc 4T bucket have to produce to do 178Km/Hr on a 2.4Km race circuit? Presumably on the straight, which might be 0.7Km.

The RS/KE125 bucket weighs 70kg and puts out 29+ dynojet rear wheel hp. Taupo track 2 is 2.2km long and the bike ain't getting close to 178km/h. The NSR300's at 70hp maybe pull 180km/h, so that's my answer 70hp!

[JanBros]

a more accurate translation from the oil-post on Racehelden Ken :

Measuring the loss in an engine block (50cc) is a simple matter. leave the connecting out and drive the crankshaft with a small electric motor. Preferably a DC motor (no starter-motor, these are a series motor and run wild). Let it run for a while , a few thousand revolutions is sufficient, and measure the power consumed (absorbed current voltage times). Measure the block without oil and then fill to the the desired oil level, with or without heated oil. I have this test done once a few years ago. The (loss) of power was approximately with heated oil (approximately 24 volts and 5 amps) just over 125 Watts or 0.2 horsepower. Only true for a directly driven bank and not on a chassis dynamometer. Doing the same experiment on a chassis dyno you will obviously lose a lot more power and therefore need a significant larger drive motor. Mind you there are a lot more "parameters" as innertia of the drum, chain, tire pressure, etc. I believe that some of the test bench operators estimate the los of power somewhat on the high side, perhaps to get higher figures of power at the crankshaft.

and Frits' response :

Bram, a large part of the power loss in the transmission is caused by the mutual friction of the gears. That friction is proportional to the torque that is on the gears.
If you drive the gearbox drives with a two horsepower electric motor, these losses are much smaller than when 20 hp has to be transferred.
For that same reason, the measurement of the power outlet after an acceleration run is rather pointless, because then the full engine power (including the associated frictional losses) are no longer present.

Point two: the power of an electric motor is only equal to the amount of power when the motor efficiency is 100%. which off course it isn't; it's efficiency is not even consistent across the rev range. So measuring power-losses isn't saying enough about the actualy delivered output.

[Frits Overmars]

Thanks Jan, you're doing much better than Google Translator. Only under 'Point two' a couple of words got lost in translation.
It should read: "the absorbed power of an electric motor is only equal to the delivered amount of power if the motor efficiency is 100%... etc."

[lodgernz]

My guess: 29 rear wheel-hp. A bit much for a 150 cc foul-stroke, isn't it?

24hp plus super aerodynamics. or a water cooled cylinder and ..............................

The RS/KE125 bucket weighs 70kg and puts out 29+ dynojet rear wheel hp. Taupo track 2 is 2.2km long and the bike ain't getting close to 178km/h. The NSR300's at 70hp maybe pull 180km/h, so that's my answer 70hp!

Interesting. At the CAMS Southern Classic Festival at Levels last weekend, several F4 bikes were clocked at over 170, one of them at 178.
They probably had fairings on, and of course the best riders in the country, but I'd love to see inside those engines.

[richban]

The NSR300's at 70hp maybe pull 180km/h, so that's my answer 70hp!

This one is not going very fast at the moment. I melted a piston on the practise day. I may have found the problem. Checking the igntech we noticed that it was map switching to the B advance map after 10k. Lets just say we have never used the b advance map and it would have been retarding the ignition rather a lot. rookie mistake.

Oh and its more like 85 and 205kph on Manfield.

[Buddha#81:Me]

Interesting. At the CAMS Southern Classic Festival at Levels last weekend, several F4 bikes were clocked at over 170, one of them at 178.
They probably had fairings on, and of course the best riders in the country, but I'd love to see inside those engines.

Really? That's a bit optimistic. Mid to high 150's at best! Being FXR's filled the first three spots, speed is cancelled by reliability. I was third and my top speed all weekend was is 134kph. At 178 they would have been running away from the RG150's and Ninja 250's which simply wasn't happening. Fark my RD350 was only running mid 160's

[kel]

This one is not going very fast at the moment.

I see the problem, you need one of those new 178km/h bucket engines

[diesel pig]

Interesting. At the CAMS Southern Classic Festival at Levels last weekend, several F4 bikes were clocked at over 170, one of them at 178.
They probably had fairings on, and of course the best riders in the country, but I'd love to see inside those engines.

That's because who ever set up the Mylaps for the event put in the wrong track length 4km instead of the actal 2.4km so all the average speeds are wrong not just the F4s

[lodgernz]

That's because who ever set up the Mylaps for the event put in the wrong track length 4km instead of the actal 2.4km so all the average speeds are wrong not just the F4s

AHA!!! That explains it. Phew, I was just about to toss it in.

[karter444]

tig torch advice
I wanted to learn a new skill so decided I wanted to be able to weld up my own barrels mainly exhaust ducts etc . On advice from a welding supplier purchased a TM 24 torch , the smallest available , 80 amp air cooled , the head is about 25 mm high great for right up inside an exhaust duct .It completed about 15 mm of welding and got so hot the rubber insulator melted and the head came loose on the shaft .
Next option was to modify a tm 17 torch head that I already had , rated at 150 amps I shortened it down and fitted the very short ceramic shroud and the collet from the tm 24 . This torch ended up about 30 mm high , still ok to just get into the duct .while the torch itself was ok the rubber insulator once again melted .welder is set to 80 amps and barrel is preheated
2 questions that I have , do I need to just spend the money on a water cooled tm 24 torch , or is there a coating available so the rubber insulator can be removed that will take the heat and also insulate it electrically
cheers

[husaberg]

This one is not going very fast at the moment. I melted a piston on the practise day. I may have found the problem. Checking the igntech we noticed that it was map switching to the B advance map after 10k. Lets just say we have never used the b advance map and it would have been retarding the ignition rather a lot. rookie mistake.

Oh and its more like 85 and 205kph on Manfield.

Rich could you do some pics on how the gearbox oiling system set works, please.
Ps I see the problem, you have no crankshaft.