ESE's works engine tuner

[wobbly]

In some cases,the RZ/Banshee is a good example, you have to reduce the primary ratio to enable realistic sprockets to be used and achieve the
terminal speed wanted.
This engine has 2.8,2.68,and 2.5 ratios ( in straight cut as well ) from aftermarket suppliers.

[peewee]

my choices are 2.81 and 2.91. i figured the slower spinning would lessen the load ? whats the theory behind the lesser load. what do you say wobbly, which should i try first ? i have both sets and their straight cut

[TZ350]

Page 1410 links list to go here when I have compiled it .......

Air/Fuel ratio meter ....

The Lambda I use is from Innovate Motorsports with a Bosch heated wideband, and it can read out in various formats.

It will convert directly to A/F ratio, Lambda Number, or 0-5V, I use the A/F ratio as an input direct to the dyno datalogger so as to see the power overlayed with A/F as well as deto etc.

The probe is in the front of the muffler,with a threaded insert that sits right on top of the perf tube.

It has a gauge reading out A/F, but you for sure havnt time to watch that when doing a dyno run.

is this one you use ?http://www.lectronfuelsystems.com/pr...ensor_kit.html

Yes that is what I alluded to re tracking EGT with a really fast response probe ( open tip, Stinger from EGT Industries - guaranteed for 2 years ) and datalogging it against power.

If the egt has dropped from say 650 to 600, then it would need at least 2 jets leaner to get back to your baseline.
2 jets is night and day power wise, and peak power rpm wise. And as you well know, if the mid has gone rich in relation to the top,then you will need to adjust the air correction to skew the fuel curve as well.

This is the controller I use for the Lambda,and this sends the A/F corrected numbers to the dyno datalogger - 12.8:1 makes a lot more sense to me than 0.9 Lambda ever did.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc2.php

Knock Sensor ... http://www.knockgauge.eu/

Re the knock sensor - there are a dozen different vehicles that use the same Bosch style sensor. BMW,Audi, Infiniti,Subaru etc It has an 8mm thru hole so is ideal to clamp under a lengthened head stud. They use a standard fuel injector plug. After a 10 second look here is one cheap as chips.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/22060-AA070-...xVVDl3&vxp=mtr

One wire is earthed, the other is the gauge input. Once its wired up you can tap the bolt head with a hammer and adjust the sensitivity so the yellow lights flicker - then give it a good bash and the red deto light will flash.

Knock sensor. Interesting calculation for detonation frequency (Khz)
http://www.autospeed.co.nz/cms/article.html?&A=0348
my bike should be around 11.4 kHz...

Get one of these with the extra wire to ground. When it sees deto it can ground an Ignitech input and retard the timing automatically. You get flashing lights and engine protection all in one shot, and cheap as chips - made in Czech so it likes being connected to an Ignitech - same lingo..
Works perfectly - when you get it trimmed correctly it will tell you where to manually pull out timing, then it just operates as a failsafe.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Knock-gauge-...ht_1582wt_1297

Bosch Vibration sensors. http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/html/4563.htm Wobbly , what is the difference between 2 pole and 3 pole types? Are these available anywhere local, I rang a Bosch distributor in Auck, I think they were giving me the 1000 yard stare on the phone

The 3 pole ones have 3 wires so don't know how these would be connected.

Most are 2 wire and are common to most late model cars, Audi, VW ,BMW, Subi etc, the plug is standard injector type.

Easiest is the one with 8mm hole thru the middle, they are rugged as hell, so rarely bust, whip down to wrecker and get one for jack shit with the plug connected.

Forget the homemade bullshit, get one of these with the extra wire to ground.
When it sees deto it can ground an Ignitech input and retard the timing automatically.
You get flashing lights and engine protection all in one shot, and cheap as chips - made in Czech so it likes being connected to an Ignitech - same lingo..
Works perfectly - when you get it trimmed correctly it will tell you where to manually pull out timing, then it just operates as a failsafe.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Knock-gauge-...ht_1582wt_1297

Knock gauge for detonation sensor klopfsensor

http://www.knockgauge.eu/

Attachment 263028

Ok mine turned up today.

Attachment 263027

And a couple of two wire sensors I picked up cheap from the local garage.

Good luck with the Deto sensing TZ. I like the little warning instrument!

Here's how I mounted my sensor. I drilled-tapped an old head bolt and screwed a stud.

Attachment 263051Attachment 263052

My sensor has a PN 0-261-231-001, what's yours?
According to this http://www.phormula.co.uk/KnockCalculator.aspx , deto freq for 56mm bore should be 10.2kHz.
According to Bosch datasheets for PN -047 & -120, sensors are able to catch frequencies from 1 to 20 kHz.
I assume all Bosch sensors can sense knock within this range (?)

edit: As for the pick-up voltage, I think it won't be more than +-10V. I had a voltage test yesterday with a data acquisition device in real time! I spinned the crank by hand and recorder the voltage waveform from the pick-up in the PC. As RPM increase, amplitude (and freq of course) of the pulses increase - by hand-spinning it didn't exceed 3~3.5 VAC. Sure it was a lot of fun to watch!

Attachment 263081

BOSCH p/n 0 261 231 046

Attachment 263082

Other sensors can be found here too. http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/html/4563.htm

Relocated the knock sensor. I found some steel head bolts and faced one off, then drilled and tapped it. And made a standoff that was carefully faced off as the knock sensor likes to be securely mounted on a very flat surface. The black goop (silicon glue) on the blue wire is there as a strain relief and hopefully it will stop the vibration breaking the wire where it is attached to the copper head fin.

Attachment 270747

I have just received another Knock Gauge, this one has two extra outputs. http://www.knockgauge.eu/content/blogcategory/22/41/

YouTube links showing the Knock Gauge in action.

The two green lights, the orange warning light then you see the red det light. http://youtu.be/aZkZR-JBr_E and http://youtu.be/vFoZyw_sHmA

Like last time, one that goes to ground for signaling the IgniTec to retard and a new one that pulses from 0V to +5V each time the Knock Gauge sees a detonation event.

The Curtis event counter can then count the detonations. Now I have the makings of a det sensor, ignition retarder and det counter.

The Trumeter 7111 is no longer stocked by RS but they do have something similar.

Attachment 269009

703TR002N-512D RS part number 183-5952 $63.50 ... 5-12V and less than 10mA so easily self powered and at 500Hz fast enough to count all deto events as seen by the Knock Gauge or similar, as 200Hz in a 2-Stroke equals 12,000 rpm.

Attachment 269008

And here is something if you want to try your hand at making a complete det counter for your self.

Attachment 269011

RS part number 185-6090 $45.30

You could box this along with an amp or frequency filter from Jaycar and make you own little compact det counter.

Attachment 269012

Electrical specs.

Attachment 269014

Two different ways to go, with an amp you would count the high amplitude deto peaks or you could use a band or high pass frequency filter and count whatever passes through it.

This post links back to various cheap counters that could be used with the Knock Gauge.

[JanBros]

my choices are 2.81 and 2.91. i figured the slower spinning would lessen the load ? whats the theory behind the lesser load. what do you say wobbly, which should i try first ? i have both sets and their straight cut

reducing the speed = increasing the torque and higher torques = more load.

so the higher the primary ratio is, the stronger your clutch needs to be to handle the higher torque.
but you also have to consider the available sprockets for your final drive in order to achieve the top speed. Like Wobbly says : changing an RD250LC designed to turn at 160km/h max into a 500cc version that can go 250km/h, there might not be enough space for a big enough front or small enough rear sprocket to achieve 250km/h, so you need to change the ratio's somewhere else to. simplest is the primary because then you change the ratio for all the gears at once. Most expensive is changing all the gears in the gearbox, but than off course you can have the perfect gearbox made for your engine.

[TZ350]

A couple of interesting reads about 125cc 2T land speed records and the people behind them.

http://kolblsr.blogspot.co.nz/

http://www.canned-ham.com/index.php/...-speed-record/

[Lef16]

Hey guys,
I've already have a knock gauge,but I don't know where to find a decent knock sensor.
I've found plenty cheap sensors on ebay but they don't write the mount diameter.
From the pictures i've found a lot of 2 pin sensor(like wob said) but I don't know the actual dia,and most of them don't tell you via a message.
So,can you help me?Wob,what type and brand of knock sensor do you use?
Cheers

[peewee]

reducing the speed = increasing the torque and higher torques = more load.

so the higher the primary ratio is, the stronger your clutch needs to be to handle the higher torque.
but you also have to consider the available sprockets for your final drive in order to achieve the top speed. Like Wobbly says : changing an RD250LC designed to turn at 160km/h max into a 500cc version that can go 250km/h, there might not be enough space for a big enough front or small enough rear sprocket to achieve 250km/h, so you need to change the ratio's somewhere else to. simplest is the primary because then you change the ratio for all the gears at once. Most expensive is changing all the gears in the gearbox, but than off course you can have the perfect gearbox made for your engine.

ah that makes sense about the higher torque. the clutch setups i have are plenty strong so im not concearned about anything breaking. one is cushioned with rubber disks and the other with springs. both are straight cut gears with billet alloy baskets. theres plenty of sprockets available. 10-17 teeth on the front and 40-48 teeth on the rear. i only need to go from 0-70mph or so. also i have billet 2nd gear for when the clutch is released instantly at the start of the race

[TZ350]

Hey guys, I've already have a knock gauge,but I don't know where to find a decent knock sensor.

Emess has posted some good tips on how to search this thread using Google for the info you need, it is worth a try.....

... some may find this useful. Rather than use the site search which usually fails, use Google so to search this site use an ordinary search phrase and after it add

site:www.kiwibiker.co.nz

for example

Frits priceless site:www.kiwibiker.co.nz
or
Frits pisa site:www.kiwibiker.co.nz

the same will work for other sites with the appropriate site address

Mick

Results of a quick Google search for "knock sensor:www.kiwibiker.co.nz"

ESE's works engine tuner - Page 1090 - Kiwi Biker www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/86554-ESE.../page1090
Jan 18, 2015 - 15 posts - ‎10 authors http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/at...7&d=1413067504 .... As knock sensors usually only have one wire I guess they are earthed through the ...ESE's works engine tuner - Page 879 15 posts 29 Nov 2013 ESE's works engine tuner - Page 477 15 posts 10 Apr 2012

[richban]

I am pleases to say Glen took the days top spot in F3, with 2 great race wins on the street. And living up to his nickname sketchy, with a few exciting moments for him and the crowd. It has been a very long time since a 2 stroke has won there. Great effort.

I was crap. Bike was great.

[TZ350]

I was crap. Bike was great.

Oooops .... Crap..... Bugger

But great to hear of Glens 2T win.

[wobbly]

Hey Rich,there are much easyer ways to check if the front axle is tight.

Re the knock sensor - there are a dozen different vehicles that use the same Bosch style sensor.
BMW,Audi, Infiniti,Subaru etc
It has an 8mm thru hole so is ideal to clamp under a lengthened head stud.
They use a standard fuel injector plug.
After a 10 second look here is one cheap as chips.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/22060-AA070-...xVVDl3&vxp=mtr

One wire is earthed, the other is the gauge input.
Once its wired up you can tap the bolt head with a hammer and adjust the sensitivity so the yellow lights flicker - then give it a good bash and the red deto light will flash.

Re the clutch,where you are continually dumping the clutch and putting really big instantaneous loads on the drive train, the sprung hub has proven to be more reliable than rubber discs that eventually
distort permanently.

[d2t]

I would suggest you buy this book:
Attachment 318156
It won't tell you anything about cooling air guidance but it will look nice on your bookshelf .

Hey Frits, was this book ever published in English? I wouldn't mind another well written book on the shelf to fool my guests into thinking I'm smart.

[speedpro]

Surely a technical book in a "foreign" language would impress your guests more rather than just another English language tome.

[F5 Dave]

1/10th of a second earlier in that pic Rich and you would have seen me running. You hit the barrier I was behind. That was one impressive crash and I had that nightmare that night you often get after a big crash but there was a bike cartwheeling towards me.
I'd just recovered and I could see myself back in hospital explaining another motorcycle racing accident but I wasn't riding at the time.

i saw the bike on top of you but I couldn't help due to the fence but you kicked it off ok. At least the thether switch stayed plugged in.

[richban]

1/10th of a second earlier in that pic Rich and you would have seen me running. You hit the barrier I was behind. That was one impressive crash and I had that nightmare that night you often get after a big crash but there was a bike cartwheeling towards me.
I'd just recovered and I could see myself back in hospital explaining another motorcycle racing accident but I wasn't riding at the time.

i saw the bike on top of you but I couldn't help due to the fence but you kicked it off ok. At least the thether switch stayed plugged in.

Oh dear. Thats no good! Yeah I am sure it looked bad. I am just lucky I race a nice light 2 stroke. In a bit of pain now. It seams you need a little more warm up before gymnastics. I got off light. Silly late move.