ESE's works engine tuner

[TZ350]

The whole build can be seen by following the backstory posts like a trail of breadcrumbs.

... backstory posts trail of breadcrumbs.

The Dry Sump and Gear Oiler, not to sure how well this idea will work so I am going to try it on the old air cooled engine first.

Attachment 317734 Attachment 317736

... but the trans spins so slow compared to crank, curious as to what the actual gain is with an oil pump.

I am curious too, so it is one of the reasons I am re cycling the old air cooled motor which I have dyno data for. I will fit the old air cooled motor to the new chassis for testing before I put the super duper 110cc NSR/GP motor into the new frame.

Apart from any potential performance gain from a dry sumped motor I basically have to do it because the motor is so heavily tilted down at the front in the new frame that all the gear box oil will flood the rotary valve area and leave the gears dry, so I have to pump it back over the gears to lubricate them.

And if your pumping oil around you might as well run it through an oil cooler too. And if you have an oil cooler you might as well make it as efficient as possible with a fan to shift air through it. Anyway that was the thinking. But with Wobbly pointing out that 150ml of oil was enough for the BSL 500 I will re think how big a catch tank I need.

A bit more progress, managed to get the air cooled engine together and fitted into the NSR250 frame.



The original plan was for a bunch of ducting to go on and the motor slanted down so as to expose the center of the cylinder head to the cooling blast of air that will be ducted in, in between the fork legs. If I can I would like to extend the ducting all the way from the front high pressure area to the low pressure area behind the bike.



The original plan was for an air cooled engine, then the Gods smiled and I could build a 110cc water cooled engine. The six speed H2O unit is on the floor and will go in when I have tested the gear box dry sump idea with the air cooled unit.

I have to try the dry sump idea with the air cooled unit first because I have good dyno data for this air cooled motor in standard wet gearbox and clutch trim. And it would be nice to know if the dry sump idea is worth any power at the back wheel before I fit the water cooler.

[Frits Overmars]

Hey Frits, was this book ever published in English? I wouldn't mind another well written book on the shelf to fool my guests into thinking I'm smart.

Not to my knowledge. But maybe someone pushed it through the GoogleTranslator.

Surely a technical book in a "foreign" language would impress your guests more rather than just another English language tome.

I think so too. I have a lot of books in foreign languages, mainly English

[dtenney]

We have been dyno testing a 125cc rotary valve motor using both carbon fiber and steel rotary valves. We are quickly seeing wear around the inlet hole. Does anyone have coating suggestions for the RV running surfaces that will minimize the wear?

Thanks,

David

[teriks]

We have been dyno testing a 125cc rotary valve motor using both carbon fiber and steel rotary valves. We are quickly seeing wear around the inlet hole. Does anyone have coating suggestions for the RV running surfaces that will minimize the wear?

Thanks,

David

I have dealt with some Tufram coatings at work, but not in engines, yet. I think L4 or FC12 are good candidates for that application if the rest of the part is up to anodizing. You might need too much masking if the running surface is part of the case though.

http://www.magnaplate.com/coatings/tufram

[dtenney]

I have dealt with some Tufram coatings at work, but not in engines, yet. I think L4 or FC12 are good candidates for that application if the rest of the part is up to anodizing. You might need too much masking if the running surface is part of the case though.

http://www.magnaplate.com/coatings/tufram

Thanks Teriks. These coatings look interesting.

DT

[ief]

Can't seem to find it, TZ, for the copper baseplate, did u just use some copperspray, no gaskets right? Seal ok that way and anealed first?

[seattle smitty]

http://www.kgcoatings.com/products/2400-series-gun-kote

Dave , take a look at post #15312, page 1021. There are some related follow-on posts, too. This is a cheap, do-it-yourself fix-up, a heat-cured dry lubricant that you apply with an air-brush (and I'm suggesting doing this to the case halves, not the disc). Zak did a lot of this moly-coating, tho' I don't know if he did rotary valve cases. Do you think the leading edge of your valve disc is flexing in and out as it passes the hole, and maybe digging into the edges of the hole? Can you give the edges just a little bit of ramp (and make sure the moly coating covers that ramp)??

[Frits Overmars]

Do you think the leading edge of your valve disc is flexing in and out as it passes the hole, and maybe digging into the edges of the hole? Can you give the edges just a little bit of ramp (and make sure the moly coating covers that ramp)??

Don't give the edges of the hole a ramp; give the leading edge of the disc a ramp, so it will plane on the oil instead of scraping it off.

[dtenney]

Don't give the edges of the hole a ramp; give the leading edge of the disc a ramp, so it will plane on the oil instead of scraping it off.

Frits:

Just to make sure i understand.......I should taper the edge of the rotary valve so the oil will not get scraped away but will flow under the valve?

Thanks,

David

[lodgernz]

Don't give the edges of the hole a ramp; give the leading edge of the disc a ramp, so it will plane on the oil instead of scraping it off.

Both sides of the disk? Or just the crankcase side?

[wobbly]

Here is a pic of the best shape to prevent the disc from pulling into the port as it sweeps over it - and wearing the case.
The disc spins anticlock - so the outer leading edge of the closing side of the disc is well supported ( as its past the port hole ) and
the inner corner radius of the disc actually forms the closing timing point with the bottom left corner of the port.
Thus the port closes gradually from the outside inward, with the timing still set at the usual 140/90 numbers.
The only thing that changes is the last part of the port to be open at 90* is the bottom left corner.

We tried a huge number of shapes when dynoing at Zip the Hines 250 Superkart title winning engines and even had a full port shaped radius ( convex and concave )
on both leading and trailing edges plus combinations of straight edges and curved ie everything we could think of.
The port shape that was wider at the top, and smaller at the bottom with dead straight blade edges made the best overev power, but it wore out the dyno case in no time.
So we went back to the symmetrical shaped port as per the Aprilia pics.

Note that the later RSA port is rotated 90*, with the widest port chord on the centreline thru the crank, giving the same area as the older RSW port, but a smaller footprint of
the valves intrusion for any particular timing duration.
Having the blade not inside the port for the most time, ie with a "narrow " port angular width, gives better power for the same timings as a wide port.

Edit - added pic of later RSA port with widest chord on crank center line , also just added older RSA version.

[kel]

The disc spins anticlock - so the outer leading edge of the closing side of the disc is well supported ( as its past the port hole ) and
the inner corner radius of the disc actually forms the closing timing point with the bottom left corner of the port.

Are you sure? I believe (and have posted before) that the disc spins clockwise. Reason behind this is due to the best flow with partially open carburettor is achieved by opening the inlet port from the bottom up. Spin the disc anti clockwise and you have soft closing, spin it clockwise and you more or less get the port opening from the bottom up as per the RSA. And as the man says - Jan Thiel "I thought about this when we designed the RSA. And made the inlet open from the bottom!"

[wobbly]

When Jan first designed the RSA it had the wide port chord horizontal.
The last versions had the port turned 90* so the wide chord was vertical, and at the same time the angled blade edge was reversed
simply to stop the bad wear problems - with no power downside.
I asked Jan after Frits gave me his email, and the first question to him was why the blade change, as well as the port orientation - the answer , wear , nothing else.
With the port chord change, so did the flow regime.
The first pic I showed was an old 250 - I was just demonstrating the blade shape, not the actual spin direction of that motor.

[TZ350]

Looking at the pics my first reaction is to " fix " the insert - that is extend the floor all the way out to the flange face.

As I said earlier having the dam in place makes the exit area much bigger than that at the port - and we already know that the reverse scenario makes better power.

Having a much smaller area at the port may in fact work really well if the whole duct is reduced to suit, keeping the Mach number higher right down to the header.

Thanks, it is a team effort, hopefully Chambers will be happy to continue the experiment because he is the one doing all the real work making the changes.

I only help by recording the dyno runs and posting the results. I am looking forward to adding to the Team ESE stable by completing my own 50 with the information we find out from Chambers efforts.

Attachment 318101 Attachment 318098

Radius edge on the exhaust port dam

Attachment 318102

Red = radius on the leading edge of the exhaust port dam, Blue = sharp edge.

Radius is better.

Attachment 318103

Red = radius edged dam, Blue = No Dam.

Above is the back story so far.

Now, tonight we had more dyno adventures with Chambers RG50.



Blue = best with no dam, Red = original dam with radiused edge level with TPO , Green = radiused dam opening 4 deg after TPO.



Blue = Exhaust dam level with TPO. Red = Dam opening 4 deg after TPO.



Engmod warned us that razing the port timing would not work, it was right. Red = barrel raised 0.5mm or one base gasket.



Where we are now, Blue = best with no dam, Red best of where we are now at with an exhaust dam.

We are getting there, Chambers now has the dam making a touch more maximum power than the no dam version.

Next move is to start opening up the "A" transfer ports and pointing them more towards the center of the cylinder for more power by taking advantage of the short circuiting blocking powers of the exhaust dam.

Here is hoping.

[F5 Dave]

Hmm. So why the dramatic increase of peak power? Temperature fooling the pipe?