ESE's works engine tuner

**ief** · 12th January 2016, 01:16

Searched the thread on this but not to much came up (perhaps because it's a none issue to most if not all but still)

I understand one should have the proper heatgrade plug with the proper gap, the right octane fuel, ignition etc. etc.

But...

If one is restricted to a given ignition is there a way to play with these variables and what would the relations be and how would they influence things?

Reason I ask is simple, thought I try a ngk 6 instead of 7 and it felt leaner. And if the picture below is right it's still to cold (burnplace of electrode) but it now seems I have to jet up for the hotter plug. Also using ron 98 instead of 95, not sure if necessary but to be on the safe side so it made me wonder about above.

+ I seem to have an awesome fuel ecconemy as is

**teriks** · 12th January 2016, 01:19

Originally Posted by bjorn.clauw.1

(It would be nice for testing purposes if you can bolt on a different exhaust duct.

How about a wet exhaust insert/nozzle inspired by what TeeZee have shown instead of a partially wet liner?
Should be possible to achieve id think, but ignorance is bliss, I have never cut apart a water cooled cylinder..

**Frits Overmars** · 12th January 2016, 02:01

Originally Posted by ief

thought I try a ngk 6 instead of 7 and it felt leaner. And if the picture below is right it's still to cold.

What engine are you working on Ief? A Solex?

Sure, if the plug gets hotter, the insulator will become cleaner. That is why determining jet sizes by plug-reading only works if the plug has the correct heat range.
Using RON 98 instead of RON 95 is a waste of money, unless you are plagued by detonation. But then you'd better solve that problem first (less ignition advance, less compression, better cooling, more petrol).

**ief** · 12th January 2016, 02:24

Lol, a TOMOS Frits

Fine way to experiment to my hearts intent (finally) on a practical level without braking the bank and just as much room for learning and discovering (for me, at this point anyway)

If only, getting a model in engmod within 95% (90 maybe, don't know what is possible) accuracy is a challange of it's own so loads of stuff to figure out and do.

**adegnes** · 12th January 2016, 02:52

Originally Posted by ief

Lol, a TOMOS Frits

Fine way to experiment to my hearts intent (finally) on a practical level without braking the bank and just as much room for learning and discovering (for me, at this point anyway)

If only, getting a model in engmod within 95% (90 maybe, don't know what is possible) accuracy is a challange of it's own so loads of stuff to figure out and do.

What model Tomos is it?
I've got an a35 engine in pieces, and could help with measurements for your sim.

**ief** · 12th January 2016, 04:10

That's the one

I allready bought an extra engine for exactly that reason but tnx for the offer. If only Neels and I can get on the same page I can continue (lol, just a joke Neels

)

Na, I need to remeasure the ducts to get the proper CCR. More complicated stuff seems to be ignition and temps etc. mostly the revs below say 2500 rpm seem way off...

No hurry.

**adegnes** · 12th January 2016, 05:50

Originally Posted by ief

That's the one

I allready bought an extra engine for exactly that reason but tnx for the offer. If only Neels and I can get on the same page I can continue (lol, just a joke Neels

)

Na, I need to remeasure the ducts to get the proper CCR. More complicated stuff seems to be ignition and temps etc. mostly the revs below say 2500 rpm seem way off...

No hurry.

Ok! Check out mopedarmy for info if you haven't yet, lot's of it there.

**peewee** · 12th January 2016, 08:06

frits you might be happy to know I made a mistake and after some thought I revised these cylinders so water can go fully around the exh port. sometimes you have to look at something a few times before you see a better way

**wobbly** · 12th January 2016, 08:26

I agree with everything Frits has to say on the dyno issue.
Ive been thru the water brake drama with a Land and Sea, just way more drama than its worth and was only
useful when a large inertia wheel was added as the brake control simply could not keep up with the rate of change of torque
in a 2T.

Re the sim accuracy,Neels code is so refined now that it is easily capable of predicting spot on accuracy within the powerband.
The only real unknown variable now is being able to assign correct values to the transfer and Ex Cd.
A good example is the RSW where we see that the raw STA numbers are skewed in favor of the transfers.
This is because as Jan alluded to, the transfer ducts and the sharp edge port exits are as good as he thought they could be.
The Ex Blowdown STA is low by comparison, but the Cd of the Ex ports is hugely affected by the big radius on the timing edge
and the port is capable of far more efficient flow than the simple timing/area numbers would indicate.
This is sort of the same but opposite to what we see in engines with crap straight transfer ducts with a right angle bend into the port.
We have to skew those transfer ports STA upwards in relation to the Blowdown, as they simply cant/wont flow anything like the plain numbers would indicate.

And in relation to the idea of a wet nozzle and or flange spigot.
Many engines with a bolt on spigot,can have slots cut in the spigot face to allow water access right around the Ex duct, and the slots also allow
water to cool the spigot back face.
Works a treat, but I can tell you now when it does work well, the egt drops significantly, and you HAVE to be tracking this and rejet on the dyno to see the real effect working.

**Larry Wiechman** · 12th January 2016, 11:51

Originally Posted by wobbly

Re the sim accuracy,Neels code is so refined now that it is easily capable of predicting spot on accuracy within the powerband.
The only real unknown variable now is being able to assign correct values to the transfer and Ex Cd.
A good example is the RSW where we see that the raw STA numbers are skewed in favor of the transfers.
This is because as Jan alluded to, the transfer ducts and the sharp edge port exits are as good as he thought they could be.
The Ex Blowdown STA is low by comparison, but the Cd of the Ex ports is hugely affected by the big radius on the timing edge
and the port is capable of far more efficient flow than the simple timing/area numbers would indicate.
This is sort of the same but opposite to what we see in engines with crap straight transfer ducts with a right angle bend into the port.
We have to skew those transfer ports STA upwards in relation to the Blowdown, as they simply cant/wont flow anything like the plain numbers would indicate.

Is there a way to utilize flowbench data in the simulation?

**Makr** · 12th January 2016, 16:22

Originally Posted by bjorn.clauw.1

I was wondering if anybody had any pictures from a cilinder made up of several modular pieces. (for dyno testing purposes). I believe Jan (or Frits) posted pictures a while back, but I can't find them anymore. If memory serves me correct the transfer ports and exhaust duct were seperate blocks that could be exchanged.

For testing purposes I would like to use a pressed in cast iron sleeve because it is easy (and cheap) to modify. I know these are not ideal in a watercooled cilinder. I was wondering if this could be improved by milling away the aluminum above the exhaust port (full curcumference) so the top 20mm of the liner under the head is exposed to the cooling fluid.

Found on net, Billet 3 piece cylinder block for RD400 for land speed record racing ,
Attachment 315111Attachment 315112Attachment 315113Attachment 315114Attachment 315115Attachment 315116

Edit: Text that was under pictures

"I am also going back to iron sleeves. Nikasil is more of a pain than I think it is worth. I may prove myself wrong, but I am going with it.

The problem with Nikasil is if you seize it ruins it which is expensive and takes a month to have re-done. But the worst part is every time it has to be replated, the nitric acid eats all of the alloying elements out of the aluminum. Last years engine is toast. The threads are all gone. Anything that used to be a press fit is now loose. It may make more power not to have the residual heat from the iron heating up the intake, but it comes at a way too high of cost...for me.

The bike is all ready to go for this year. It makes more power than I ever dreamed. But the salt may be a thing of the past. Speed week was canceled and the Bonneville Motorcycle Speed Trials right after. World of Speed has not been canceled as of yet, but all reports make it look not promising. I will be there if it is a go.

I just lurk on this forum, but I am here.

This is my build. Not much has ever been posted on it, but if you are interested I am would be happy to share. It made within a HP of what wobbly figured it would.

**ken seeber** · 12th January 2016, 17:05

RYGER time ?

"Re: The Ryger engine.
«Reply # 128 Posted on: January 10th, 2016, 22:29:43»
Quote from: lvenni on January 10, 2016, 20:48:38
After a fantastic visit to the magnificent work, and with Mr. ryger talking to.

Conclussion, answered many questions, and I can not log else ....

It MUST work, what a wonderful piece of engineering is that .....

Hugely impressed!

Later this week we know it, and a deep bow to Mr. ryger ....... "

Seeing this is from a Dutch forum, it's gotta be right, hey.

**jonny quest** · 12th January 2016, 18:22

TZ350, have you tried a boost bottle on the intake boot? Wobbly or Frits? I have never dyno'ed a with and without boost bottle.

**wobbly** · 12th January 2016, 18:59

Boost bottles do "work" but do need serious rejetting to optimize the effect.
The engines that have them simply wont respond at all if they are removed.
But at the end of the day, exhaust tuning is vastly superior in a 2T,due to the much greater wave action energy compared to a 4T
and thus has hugely more energy easily used in an ATAC setup.
We saw close to 30% more power in the BSL500 at the bottom of the powerband when utilizing an effective servo driven ATAC, whereas
an optimized boost bottle was struggling to crack 5%.