ESE's works engine tuner

[kel]

I suspect I know who's bike has caused that controversy!

Yeah it was mine . But seriously, I don't think they are bothered with the air coolers, everyone knows the inherent problems. But I'll tell you what, I'd love to see your machine win the GP, it would be a true triumph for bucketaring!
Derbi kit motors should be targeted if we are seriously talking rule change. No way should you be able to buy off the shelf performance parts (cylinders, clutches, gear sets, etc) bolt up and call it a bucket. ps they have 110cc kits for those things also

[seymour14]

Yeah it was mine . But seriously, I don't think they are bothered with the air coolers, everyone knows the inherent problems. But I'll tell you what, I'd love to see your machine win the GP, it would be a true triumph for bucketaring! Derbi kit motors should be targeted if we are seriously talking rule change. No way should you be able to buy off the shelf performance parts (cylinders, clutches, gear sets, etc) bolt up and call it a bucket. ps they have 110cc kits for those things also

Please God say you are joking...

[TZ350]

I understand some of the AMCC Bucket committee members are looking at a re write of the rules.

I suspect I know who's bike has caused that controversy!

Yes, your work is well thought of, the current rules are lagging behind what can be done with CAD and CNC machinery.

Buckets was all about what you could do with a non competition motorcycle engine.

The Bucket committees rule update thinking looks to be about embracing and legitimising new technology and what can be done with it.

How do you have a class that requires a non competition motorcycle engine, excludes race parts but allows someone to completely make an engine from scratch? How do your formulate a rule for that, it is a tricky one.

[TALLIS]

How do you have a class that requires a non competition motorcycle engine but allows someone to completely make an engine from scratch? How do your formulate a rule for that, it is a tricky one.

I don't really understand this, you can use a nsr cylinder and sleeve it down or buy a surposingly non race derbi cylinder kit from Europe, but you can't make a cylinder from scratch.

[seymour14]

Yes, your work is well thought of, the current rules are lagging behind what can be done with CAD and CNC machinery.

Buckets was all about what you could do with a non competition motorcycle engine.

The Bucket committees rule update thinking looks to be about embracing and legitimising new technology and what can be done with it.

How do you have a class that requires a non competition motorcycle engine, excludes race parts but allows someone to completely make an engine from scratch? How do your formulate a rule for that, it is a tricky one.

Again, this could just be a percentage thing. To be quite honest I would never consider building a complete motor for a bucket simply because I do consider that totally against the rules. But when I see that aftermarket cylinders can be bought with ease, I expected that making a cylinder should be well within the same philosophy.

If I was to make a complete motor in time, it would be for a totally different class of motorcycle racing.

[TZ350]

To be quite honest I would never consider building a complete motor for a bucket simply because I do consider that totally against the rules.

Hand build some of the motor or all of it like some of Flettners efforts, whatever, it is an admirable Bucket thing.

The problem is, how do you formulate a rule that allows and encourages maximum innovation and keep some race engine restrictions. I can see the all in MX85 thing would be much easier.

[marsheng]

It does seem odd that no Ryger powered Karts are not in the 1st race.

Double negative make a positive, so Rygers are in the first race ??

I presume you mean

It does seem odd that Ryger powered Karts are not in the 1st race.

or

It does seem odd that no Ryger powered Karts are in the 1st race.

[mr bucketracer]

Hand build some of the motor or all of it like some of Flettners efforts, whatever, it is an admirable Bucket thing.

The problem is, how do you formulate a rule that allows and encourages maximum innovation and keep some race engine restrictions. I can see the all in MX85 thing would be much easier.

keery is cncing a rs125 engine at the moment , just copying the gearbox and bang done (-; lol but i see where you are coming from but only when one starts winning one worrys about it

[seymour14]

keery is cncing a rs125 engine at the moment , just copying the gearbox and bang done (-; lol but i see where you are coming from but only when one starts winning one worrys about it

Nice one you stirrer! Nothing of the sort, but I can appreciate the grey area now it is pointed out. No such thing as a KR125 or NSR110 or Derbi110, but put some aftermarket engineering or parts into the equation and boom there it is!

But then again, it is little different to someone using another cylinder head and re-machining mounting holes and porting it differently, or for that matter de stroking or sleeving a motor. It is effectively turning it into something it never was. But the point would be is that it was initially based on a commuter motor and hasn't used race derived parts.

The derbi 110cc is crap though, just look what it's little derivative can do already. Deep pockets will win the day forever at this rate.

[jasonu]

The derbi 110cc is crap though, just look what it's little derivative can do already. Deep pockets will win the day forever at this rate.

I bet it would be cheaper to build a proven Derbi/Malossi engine than to pay to have an RG400 cylinder mated to a KE125 bottom end as well as all the associated development costs. (just a comment, I am not endorsing one or the other)

[seymour14]

I bet it would be cheaper to buy a bunch of proven Derbi/Malossi parts than to pay to have an RG400 cylinder mated to a KE125 bottom end. (just a comment, I am not endorsing one or the other)

For most people yes, but not me.

Be interesting to see what the AMCC guys come up with, the grey areas seem to be larger then the clear ones...

Still, come what may, they still have to be raced well on the day.

[chrisc]

Still, come what may, they still have to be raced well on the day.

^ ain't that the fucking truth

I honestly don't see any problem with the current rules when you look at what is going on in reality, rather than what the rule book says and all the theoretical scenarios that could play out.

Between the GPR bikes, the Ford TFRS, the ESE creations, those of us running FXRs, it's all great racing! I have no hope of ever winning on my FXR but myself and others in similar positions turn up almost all meetings and have as much fun as anyone else. Just beating Henk is like winning a race in my mind!

For Nick to be hot on Will's ass (and even beating him) at Tokoroa, when Will weighs "as much as a t-shirt", is incredible! What does that say about the bikes and rules? (excluding the riders ability who are both clearly very good). Not to mention Regan and Nick taking out the bloody 2 hour at a track they've barely ridden at!

In the super and hyper bucket category, I see the biggest 'advantage' anyone has at the moment is weight and fitness. It would take some pretty unrealistic and drastic rule changes to combat that. Thank god we race on small kart tracks where the skill of a rider can clearly overcome someone else's machine advantages. This would all be so painful if we raced on big tracks where small differences in HP and weight meant everything. No wonder why so many of the buckets in Christchurch are practically stock engine wise!

[seymour14]

That does open up another thing too, is our GP that inclusive, when half the racers don't compete because it is on a kart track?

Is there any reason why we could not do a kart track/taupo swap around year about.

More food for thought, just tell me to shut up if I am opening too many cans of worms at once...

[goose8]

Don't worry gary, we're all binning the fxr engines for two strokes so that unfair adavatange will be gone.

Great post by the way rob!!!

Don't get me wrong 2 strokes do have a advantage .
Personally I would love to run standard 125 motocross motors in a superbucket class ,the high sides would be funny as shit to watch.but can't see it ever happening , still would love to swap bikes for a session or two with one of the gpr fxrs bikes ,As I have been having some fun lately on the f5 4 stroke

[Lightbulb]

More food for thought, just tell me to shut up if I am opening too many cans of worms at once...

It's not the can's of worms, it's just that the toasters can't keep up.
Maybe we need more toasters and thinkers.
Neil