ESE's works engine tuner

[ief]

I don't get that reed, other then the before mentioned stuffer shape, perhaps I missed a post but where is the top of the cage (reeds won't close for sure this way, obviously ) Was it a 8 valve converted to 4? I can imagine those big flaps giving more problems then they solve. But only one way to find out ofcoarse...

Nice work on the cases!

[Muciek]

D Racing informe ses clients et contacts que les moteurs RYGER ne sont pas commercialisable par D Racing en l absence de disponibilité des moteurs < homologues > en l absence de toute fiabilité et performance vérifie sans parler d un niveau sonore supérieur à la norme FFSA et CIK au régime moteur annoncé par RYGER

Google translator

D Racing informs its clients and contacts that Ryger engines are not marketable D Racing in the unavailability of engines in the absence of reliability and performance checks not to mention a sound level greater than the FFSA standard and CIK engine speed announced by ryger


https://www.facebook.com/Dracing.fr/?fref=photo

That does not sound good...

[nasone32]

The tip of the reed block is removed intentionally, the reeds don't need to close completely.
As Frits teaches, the reeds could be removed altogether!
there is 1 mm clearance between the reeds tip.
We do this often in scooter engines and gives some +0.6 hp with 28mm carbs.
Although this gain is mostly because the reed valve is small compared to the carb.
this reed block was born with 4 reeds
my idea was to use short reeds, so they can be very thin, and since the flow area is reduced, the reed cage is very wide to compensate.
the vibrational frequency of a reed goes with lenght squared, so with a small reduction in lenght the reed can be much thinner, I think i won't have problems with 0,25mm reeds @ 14.5k rpm

D Racing informe ses clients et contacts que les moteurs RYGER ne sont pas commercialisable par D Racing en l absence de disponibilité des moteurs < homologues > en l absence de toute fiabilité et performance vérifie sans parler d un niveau sonore supérieur à la norme FFSA et CIK au régime moteur annoncé par RYGER

Google translator

D Racing informs its clients and contacts that Ryger engines are not marketable D Racing in the unavailability of engines in the absence of reliability and performance checks not to mention a sound level greater than the FFSA standard and CIK engine speed announced by ryger


https://www.facebook.com/Dracing.fr/?fref=photo

That does not sound good...

DAMN

[bjorn.clauw.1]

D Racing informe ses clients et contacts que les moteurs RYGER ne sont pas commercialisable par D Racing en l absence de disponibilité des moteurs < homologues > en l absence de toute fiabilité et performance vérifie sans parler d un niveau sonore supérieur à la norme FFSA et CIK au régime moteur annoncé par RYGER

Google translator

D Racing informs its clients and contacts that Ryger engines are not marketable D Racing in the unavailability of engines in the absence of reliability and performance checks not to mention a sound level greater than the FFSA standard and CIK engine speed announced by ryger


https://www.facebook.com/Dracing.fr/?fref=photo

That does not sound good...

Thats pretty loosely translated by google, more correct would be:
D Racing informs its clients that we cannot offer Ryger engines for sale due to a shortage of available homologated engines and due to a lack of proof regarding longivity and performance. Not to mention an exhaust volume greater than the FFSA and CIK standards unlike what ryger mentioned earlier.

(Bad news rephrased remains bad news I guess)
This is by far the weirdest product launch I have ever seen. (Surely the longivity and performance issues had to be long solved by now)

[wobbly]

So Nasone - the reed block tip being removed brings up three questions for me.
How does this affect the low speed running ( jetting ) and secondly, as I deal alot with restricted class engines, where reed block mods are forbidden
im now thinking that shortening the reed petal,leaving a 1mm gap at the end may work as well.
What about reed fretting, with no support at its tip across most off its width - any issues with this.

And about the stuffer shape - the side flow from the reeds ( helped by the convex stuffer shape ) really only works well if the reed box geometry is designed to use it properly.
Many newer MX engines have been going narrower and narrower vertically at the exit into the case volume, and then wider horizontally,with a taper then radius out
into the volume directly under the transfer duct entry area.

[MotleyCrue]

Thats pretty loosely translated by google, more correct would be:
D Racing informs its clients that we cannot offer Ryger engines for sale due to a shortage of available homologated engines and due to a lack of proof regarding longivity and performance. Not to mention an exhaust volume greater than the FFSA and CIK standards unlike what ryger mentioned earlier.

(Bad news rephrased remains bad news I guess)
This is by far the weirdest product launch I have ever seen. (Surely the longivity and performance issues had to be long solved by now)

The way things have been going this isnt too surprising. I have seen projects go like this, first there are wondrous things observed but there isnt enough money to develop them and iron out the bumps, then after some negotiating someone comes up with some money and a bunch of optimistic deadlines for accomplishment, but R&D isnt like that it always takes 5-10 times as long as you think, not all deadlines can be met competently and in the end a half finished project goes out the door and everyone holds there noses and crosses their fingers.

Lets hope the problem is it can be resolved quickly but my gut says they thought they had control of the HCCI process but they dont, and neither does anyone else after 30+ years of trying.

The real bummer is they never even put out 1 single dyno curve and/or video showing what the engine could do under best case conditions. Even if the manufactured version cant do it, yet, or ever, at least showing the best case dyno curve would go a ways to securing everyone's support for the cause.

[Peter1962]

Thats pretty loosely translated by google, more correct would be:
D Racing informs its clients that we cannot offer Ryger engines for sale due to a shortage of available homologated engines and due to a lack of proof regarding longivity and performance. Not to mention an exhaust volume greater than the FFSA and CIK standards unlike what ryger mentioned earlier.

(Bad news rephrased remains bad news I guess)
This is by far the weirdest product launch I have ever seen. (Surely the longivity and performance issues had to be long solved by now)

The correct translation of the french text is "sound level" of the exhaust at the given rpm. Not the exhaust volume.


I have to say that i do not understand this...
So first the Fia CIK gives a homologation of the engine, and now there is a statement that the engine is not homologated ?
At the official CIK website, the ryger is still mentioned as being homologated.
http://www.cikfia.com/fileadmin/cont...l-2016_Web.pdf

[adegnes]

If the Ryger really is as great as we've been told, I would imagine there's a lot of resistance amongst people/corporations with money into other more conventional engines.
I love conspiracies!
It is wierd though, no dyno sheets or video's, or anything really to back their claims.

[lucf]

Only a few weeks and everything will be explained, so be patient for a little while.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

[nasone32]

So Nasone - the reed block tip being removed brings up three questions for me.
How does this affect the low speed running ( jetting ) and secondly, as I deal alot with restricted class engines, where reed block mods are forbidden
im now thinking that shortening the reed petal,leaving a 1mm gap at the end may work as well.
What about reed fretting, with no support at its tip across most off its width - any issues with this.

And about the stuffer shape - the side flow from the reeds ( helped by the convex stuffer shape ) really only works well if the reed box geometry is designed to use it properly.
Many newer MX engines have been going narrower and narrower vertically at the exit into the case volume, and then wider horizontally,with a taper then radius out
into the volume directly under the transfer duct entry area.

Wobbly,
about the jetting, doesn't seem to give problems, the engine idles just fine, but we use cvt engines with automatic clutch engaging at 7000 rpm, So unfortunately I don't know how is driveability under that range. And also, the reeds *will* touch under crankcase pressure. But it does not make a perfect seal for sure.
I just make sure the tip of the reeds are shaped to touch each other on a small surface, rather than on an edge.
Some sanding paper does the job.
Unfortunately I lost all my imageshack images so i made a drawing.



As I see it, the divider does good for the pressure on the reeds, but also is taxing for the flow. If you look from the intake side, what you see on a conventional reed cage is a big bridge just in the middle of the flow. In this case you see a nice, straight channel.

So I don't know what simply shortening the reeds will do...

Reeds mainteinance is not reduced. I even tried a billet aluminium reed cage once, with this design, in no time you see a "shadow" on the reed where it touches the cage, but at 50 liters they were still working. then I removed it for other reasons.

[wobbly]

Reliability issues aside,if the fact is true that the pipe has been manufactured incorrectly and is not legal to the CIK spec its an unforgivable blunder.
The noise issue may then also stem from non CIK approved muffler/airbox, as theses items are well proven and are very quiet.
Being a normal watercooled cylinder no extra noise can be coming from this, so one can only assume that there is another "unusual "
event happening in the pipe that creates a huge spike of wave energy, causing excess noise from the pipe body itself, or from the muffler exit.
The mufflers are just big versions of normal absorption chambers, but if the noise frequency being emitted from the Exhaust port is substantially different
then the nothing special muffler must not be able to eliminate this "new " frequency.
Lastly, I come back to the fact that Frits is and has always been convinced of the "efficacy " of the Ryger concept,and just maybe the actual execution of the physical
parts is beyond his influence.
My respect for Frits is immense, and in no way can I believe that he has any control over what is occurring now, with regard to performance or reliability - it simply just doesnt
fit with his personality/intellect as we perceive him in our online environment .
Once again, as we have seen so many times before, we get a link posted ( by Luc ) and suddenly its taken down ( or deleted altogether ) - so no one is any the wiser as to the real situation.
The people ( person ) in charge of this complete shambles should be shot, more especially if ,as Frits obviously firmly believes, the system is a viable step forward in 2T technology.

[Flettner]

If the Ryger really is as great as we've been told, I would imagine there's a lot of resistance amongst people/corporations with money into other more conventional engines.
I love conspiracies!
It is wierd though, no dyno sheets or video's, or anything really to back their claims.

No, they didn't need any of this as they had a Frits instead. He has made this whole Ryger thing credible, they have relied on him heavily.

Luc, shortly, how many times have you said this, shortly like what, compared to the life of the universe? This shortly is becoming a bit of a joke. I agree, this Tech release has not been handled a hell of a well, it's the sort of shambles I would organise

Sorry, probably just a bit frustrated like everyone else here.

[MotleyCrue]

How about this. Instead of waiting around for the Ryger engine other shoe, or any shoe, to drop, how about a group brainstorm on how to build a 70 HP 125, or even a 60 HP 125, using whatever we know or think we know about 2 strokes, forget kart rules, fuel economy, emissions, spec exhausts, HCCI, Rygers, and oddball physical configurations that might not even survive. Just no external turbo/supercharging.

If on paper we had an Aprilia engine to start and could weld and port to our delight (since its on paper ) how could we move that much more air and trap it ? I know its a tall order but I don't think Jan and Frits working on the real engine a decade or so ago were quite as unrestricted (as the paper version).

Any takers to start?

[adegnes]

No, they didn't need any of this as they had a Frits instead. He has made this whole Ryger thing credible, they have relied on him heavily.

True!

How about this. Instead of waiting around for the Ryger engine other shoe, or any shoe, to drop, how about a group brainstorm on how to build a 70 HP 125, or even a 60 HP 125, using whatever we know or think we know about 2 strokes, forget kart rules, fuel economy, emissions, spec exhausts, HCCI, Rygers, and oddball physical configurations that might not even survive. Just no external turbo/supercharging.

If on paper we had an Aprilia engine to start and could weld and port to our delight (since its on paper ) how could we move that much more air and trap it ? I know its a tall order but I don't think Jan and Frits working on the real engine a decade or so ago were quite as unrestricted (as the paper version).

Any takers to start?

Mr. Flettner has been on it since day one!
In the time others have just started thinking about a project, he usually has at least a couple of working prototypes up and running for each of the half a dozen engines he's developing. The man is fast, proper fast!

[breezy]

Only a few weeks and everything will be explained, so be patient for a little while.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

Luc, i should imagine that the opposition to this environmentally friendly engine,from other manufactures , is immense. i could see lots of misinformed comments banded about to discredit the Ryger. But as we all know the" cream always rises to the top".