ESE's works engine tuner

**Flettner** · 17th February 2016, 18:33

Originally Posted by peewee

wob few questions. the twins with single head use a bigger diam water hose than most engines. would it be to much trouble to not machine the nipples down so far on the one I was planning to buy, so the thermo would fit proper in the larger hose ? I cant recall the hose size and I don't have any spares laying around

what do you think of seperate two piece heads with orings instead of the single one piece with metal gasket ? or does the single offer some stabilization of the cylinders

Just tell me what size and I'll make sure there is one in the heap that's your's.

**TZ350** · 17th February 2016, 19:01

Originally Posted by mr bucketracer

Attachment 319674 the bike

Your bike looks great, our number 1 bikes graph is no where as good as number two's ... number two's

did I just say that.

We have had varying luck with the GP50 engines some work much better than others. I guess small differences make a big difference with a 50.

**AndreasL** · 17th February 2016, 22:14

TZ, are those advance numbers in the pic "the real ones" seen by the engine i.e. no adding/subtracting/fudging should be done to understand everything correct?

**TZ350** · 18th February 2016, 05:18

Originally Posted by AndreasL

TZ, are those advance numbers in the pic "the real ones" seen by the engine

Yes ......

**MotleyCrue** · 18th February 2016, 05:31

Another simple and more clear looking way to show whats on a monitor screen is to press and hold the Ctrl button on the keyboard then press (just once) the Print Screen button on the keyboard (while still holding Ctrl), then open Paint click Edit Paste, voila there it is, click Save. Then its full size and crystal clear for all.

**Bert** · 18th February 2016, 06:22

Originally Posted by MotleyCrue

Another simple and more clear looking way to show whats on a monitor screen is to press and hold the Ctrl button on the keyboard then press (just once) the Print Screen button on the keyboard (while still holding Ctrl), then open Paint click Edit Paste, voila there it is, click Save. Then its full size and crystal clear for all.

You are assuming that the PC in question is:
1) connected to the net.
2) someone can be bothered
Else you are looking at not only generating a file: but also then moving it to a web enabled PC to post for your consumption...??
Many dyno PCs are running very old software on old OS (maybe even Windows 3.1 or DOS). Last thing you want is to connect it up and suffer windows updates etc. and hours of fixing registery errors to get the dyno to work again...
And it's Likely in the back of someone's workshop.
A quick Photo with a smartphone and a post via forum tool is a hell of a lot easier; while not crystal clear is enough for all of us to get an idea of what's being described&discussed.

**adegnes** · 18th February 2016, 06:56

Originally Posted by Bert

You are assuming that the PC in question is:
1) connected to the net.
2) someone can be bothered
Else you are looking at not only generating a file: but also then moving it to a web enabled PC to post for your consumption...??
Many dyno PCs are running very old software on old OS (maybe even Windows 3.1 or DOS). Last thing you want is to connect it up and suffer windows updates etc. and hours of fixing registery errors to get the dyno to work again...
And it's Likely in the back of someone's workshop.
A quick Photo with a smartphone and a post via forum tool is a hell of a lot easier; while not crystal clear is enough for all of us to get an idea of what's being described&discussed.

...but nonetheless a good tip for those who did not know how to.

**wobbly** · 18th February 2016, 08:43

Re the thermo spigot sizes.
I have run essentially the same setup on a RZ485 with CPI Cheetah cylinder making 104RWHP on unleaded.
The head outlet size is 19mm OD /16mm ID,and this fits all the LC/RZ style twins.
As the thermo is on the high pressure side of the pump the return hose size makes very little difference as the biggest ( smallest area )
restriction is in the fully open valve plate in the thermostat element.
BUT here is a tip - going up in size on the suction hose from the rad into the pump,with a bigger spigot welded onto the pump inlet ( 25mm hose )
makes a big difference to the flow and cooling.
Having said all that its easy enough for me to change the 3D models for Leonardo Flettner to CNC up a bigger one off body.

TeeZee, something is very wrong when you have 0* advance at 13,000 peak power rpm in that 50 engine

**AndreasL** · 18th February 2016, 08:55

Originally Posted by TZ350

Yes ......

Thanks TZ.

Asked since I'm in no way an expert but find the numbers very low from what Wob et al have told us.

Will be interesting to see why the bike runs best at such settings.

**adegnes** · 18th February 2016, 09:15

And now for something completely different.

Can anyone enlighten my on the subject of fuel vapour pressure? I'm particularly interested in its effect on cold starting.
Having a hard time firing up my bike and I suspect the 70/30 pump gas/xylene homebrew "race fuel" is the culprit.

My shop is at around 2-3°C when I'm not there...
Preheating does help.

**TZ350** · 18th February 2016, 09:28

I love Adegnes's engine pre heater.

Originally Posted by wobbly

TeeZee, something is very wrong when you have 0* advance at 13,000 peak power rpm in that 50 engine

Thanks for the heads up.

Originally Posted by AndreasL

Thanks TZ. Asked since I'm in no way an expert but find the numbers very low from what Wob et al have told us. Will be interesting to see why the bike runs best at such settings.

Some time has been spent on optimizing the ignition curve for the best graph result.

But there can be errors in the static timing setup, and there may very well be shortcomings in the motor/pipe that are masked by over heating the pipe at 13k rpm. Still learning myself.

**wobbly** · 18th February 2016, 10:18

RVP, is something of a hobby horse of mine at the moment.
Forever, so many people have had big issues with deto in KZ2 kart engines, and after reading several references in DynoTech magazine
about the effects I decided to do a test.
I ran our SKUSA Honda125 on the dyno one morning on fresh Avgas.
From a huge number of track tests where I have recorded the Altitude Density ( RAD ) and the egt, I have a straight line jetting chart that I know is
absolutely accurate.
RAD = 97% = 165 jet,I can simply go ahead with that and be tuned perfectly.
The baseline run gave the exact result as I would have expected,with the egt smack on 1340* and the deto first red light flickering at peak torque.
I left that fresh fuel in the dyno tank, with its normal breather to atmosphere sitting overnight.

Luckily the RAD was exactly the same the next morning, so I reran the test,and holy shit it was a complete surprise.
The egt had dropped nearly 100*F,with no changes whatsoever.
The power was down dramatically ,like 2 Hp in just over 40.So I leaned it down as you would - trying to regain the power and the egt number.
But as I leaned down, the power DROPPED, the deto lights started to warning flash,so I stopped right there.

The light front ends had all flashed off from the fuel, and as the DynoTech articles had said,the fuel simply wont vaporize entering the crankcase - it flows into the engine as big globs.
The globs dont burn efficiently,thus dropping the egt, and power simply goes away,badly.

I think I stated on here before that at the SKUSA World Finals this year we were allowed to use the 98VP racegas,or VP C12,a WAY better high octane race fuel.
For some reason we simply could not get the C12 to work on track,so I went to the VP race truck and asked them could they open a brand new drum of C12 for me.
They did, and completely the reverse to what one would expect, as the lid was unscrewed,NO vapour pressure went WHISHHHHH.
The fuel had No RVP ie it was "off" ie useless.
C12 has a published RVP of 9psi ie it should woooosh like hell.

The short of the story is that not only does fuel degrade VERY quickly, causing deto if left even overnight - hard starting in cold weather would be super likely if the light fractions wont vaporize and give
the engine something to actually burn, not drown on.

**MotleyCrue** · 18th February 2016, 10:26

Originally Posted by Bert

You are assuming that the PC in question is:
1) connected to the net.
2) someone can be bothered
Else you are looking at not only generating a file: but also then moving it to a web enabled PC to post for your consumption...??
Many dyno PCs are running very old software on old OS (maybe even Windows 3.1 or DOS). Last thing you want is to connect it up and suffer windows updates etc. and hours of fixing registery errors to get the dyno to work again...
And it's Likely in the back of someone's workshop.
A quick Photo with a smartphone and a post via forum tool is a hell of a lot easier; while not crystal clear is enough for all of us to get an idea of what's being described&discussed.

Hey, the tip I offered can be used for many things, not just as an alternate method to smartphone posting, most people dont know about it so I thought it might be of interest one way or the other, but I guess I'll just go FOAD now again.

**FastFred** · 18th February 2016, 14:06

Originally Posted by MotleyCrue

Hey, the tip I offered can be used for many things, not just as an alternate method to smartphone posting,

I think TZ uses it for posting EngMod screen shots from home but the works dyno computer is like Burt says, an antiquated piece of of gear best not connected to the net.

**FastFred** · 18th February 2016, 14:12

Originally Posted by TZ350

Attachment 319669 Attachment 319670 Attachment 319668

Chambers has been preparing the 13+ hp number 2 bike for the next Mt Wellington round and the GP at Tokoroa.

Originally Posted by wobbly

TeeZee, something is very wrong when you have 0* advance at 13,000 peak power rpm in that 50 engine

Actually TeeZee that is very encouraging making 13+hp with something seriously wrong. It could be 14-15 hp when you get it sorted.