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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #22651
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    8th February 2007 - 20:42
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    Yes i agree that the injectors do give you a good indication of whats going on via the duty cycle.
    But the " plenty " of people that select the main jet without any data get easily beaten by people that change jets 3 times a day based on RAD,and the
    dyno best power data..
    We won the Kart Nationals at Easter, as our main competition, a European factory driver with the best engines money can buy,selected his main size
    by guessing.He poled it,but detoed an engine to death the next cool morning,he had to change engines then ran well rich in the final just to ensure he finished.
    We changed jets every race,based on the weather station,and the piston looked brand new after 60 laps of racing.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  2. #22652
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    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    But the " plenty " of people that select the main jet without any data get easily beaten by people that change jets 3 times a day based on RAD,and the dyno best power data.
    I expect that is very true.

    The Ecotrons EFI has barometric and air temperature sensors for automatic fueling compensation so hopefully once I am on the money with the dyno the ECU's auto compensation will give pretty much the same results as changing the jets 3 times a day.

    I feel very comfortable with tuning the EFI system for maximum power, above 50% throttle position that is relatively easy.

    The problem I am struggling with is at the low end, if this was a carb then the EFI bit that is challenging me now is the area covered by a carb's pilot jet and transition to the slide cutaway.


  3. #22653
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    I feel a hybrid coming on.
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
    Think I'll go, back to sleep.
    Everybody listen, voices in my head
    Everybody listen, do yours say, what mine says?

  4. #22654
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    Quote Originally Posted by F5 Dave View Post
    I feel a hybrid coming on.
    Yes possible, if the "24 carburetor or equivalent" actually has to flow fuel too then a hybrid could make sense.


  5. #22655
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post

    The problem I am struggling with is at the low end, if this was a carb then the EFI bit that is challenging me now is the area covered by a carb's pilot jet and transition to the slide cutaway.
    is there any chance to vary the fuel pump pressure with RPM and/or TPS? It may be slow to respond but enable a lot more tuning options.

  6. #22656
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    Quote Originally Posted by dark art View Post
    is there any chance to vary the fuel pump pressure with RPM and/or TPS? It may be slow to respond but enable a lot more tuning options.
    That might be possible, cars have a simple way of varying the fuel pressure in relation to manifold pressure by plumbing the back of the fuel pressure regulator into the manifold, a bit like the old vacuum advance/retard setup of last century.

    Flettner used this trick by plumbing a car pressure regulator into the expansion chamber so as the bike came on song and pressure in the pipe built up it increased the fuel pressure.


  7. #22657
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    That might be possible, cars have a simple way of varying the fuel pressure in relation to manifold pressure by plumbing the back of the fuel pressure regulator into the manifold, a bit like the old vacuum advance/retard setup of last century.

    Flettner used this trick by plumbing a car pressure regulator into the expansion chamber so as the bike came on song and pressure in the pipe built up it increased the fuel pressure.
    wonder if a bleed off useing a solanoid valve tap in back to the tank would lower pressure
    i'm over buckets

  8. #22658
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	EFI fuel pressure regulator and fuel rail.JPG 
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ID:	320874Click image for larger version. 

Name:	EFI fuel pressure regulator.JPG 
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    A cars fuel rail with variable pressure fuel pressure regulator. The hose at the back of the regulator plumbs into the inlet manifold plenum.

    The varying pressure in the manifold plenum varies the fuel pressure in the fuel rail so that a constant un varying pressure differential is maintained at the injector nozzle for consistent fuel delivery.

    By plumbing the regulator into the chamber we can use this feature to increase the fuel pressure as the pressure inside the expansion chamber increases as the two stroke engine is getting up on the pipe and starting to make real power. Flettner used this feature on his Kawasaki running E85 fuel.


  9. #22659
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    Ryger Failures

    Can anyone enlighten about any Ryger failures, if they do fail, what is failing ?
    Thanks , Neil L

  10. #22660
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightbulb View Post
    Can anyone enlighten about any Ryger failures, if they do fail, what is failing ?
    Thanks , Neil L
    No one is saying nothing!
    It has been speculated piston to rod connection failure but it's all hear say.

  11. #22661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightbulb View Post
    Can anyone enlighten about any Ryger failures, if they do fail, what is failing ?
    Thanks , Neil L
    Pretty sure (with all due respect) its failings tend to fall into the Expectations vs Reality category.
    It should be remembered it took until the 1960s for the conventional two stroke to consistently beat the diesels. So there is still plenty of time for R&D on the Ryger.



    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  12. #22662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flettner View Post
    No one is saying nothing!
    means everyone is saying something.

    I presume you mean
    No one is saying anything or
    everyone is saying nothing!!!
    ........Rules are for fools and a guide for the wise ..............

    http://www.marshland.co.nz

  13. #22663
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    Attachment 320857

    A fuel injector has a tuning range just like this jet kit has. And just like when you get down to the smallest jet in the kit and still need to go leaner you need a smaller jet kit or injector to move to the next lower tuning range.

    That is my problem with the current small injector, it is just not small enough to give me the tuning range required to handle the minimum fueling requirements on high rpm over run on a closed throttle. I need the next smaller injector (kit).
    Send me one and I'll make you a smaller set.

    Cheers Wallace.
    ........Rules are for fools and a guide for the wise ..............

    http://www.marshland.co.nz

  14. #22664
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    Quote Originally Posted by TZ350 View Post
    The problem I am struggling with is at the low end, if this was a carb then the EFI bit that is challenging me now is the area covered by a carb's pilot jet and transition to the slide cutaway.
    May I ask why you're not using a wideband O2 to tune this area?
    It would be relatively straight forward with a wideband and a brake dyno.

  15. #22665
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    20th April 2011 - 08:45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmcca View Post
    May I ask why you're not using a wideband O2 to tune this area? It would be relatively straight forward with a wideband and a brake dyno.
    Why a brake dyno? Then you would be developing an engine for a set of circumstances that it will never see on a race track.
    Going through the revs on an inertia dyno and registering revs, torque and lambda simultaneously is an excellent way of establishing an injection map.
    Besides, running constant revs on a brake dyno with too little fuel or too much ignition advance may kill your engine, whereas it might survive on an inertia dyno.

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