ESE's works engine tuner

[ief]

It's out there, or better said, I'm pretty confidant this is correct:

link to post

Gives a timing of:

Exhaust duration: 187.4
Transfer duration: 114.4
Blowdown duration: 36.5


I don't think stock banshee has staggered ports though they where build pretty long and perhaps in different flavors like the rz.

If you like I could play with a rz pack file i have and turn it into the banshee and see if I can get a curve out of it resembling the curve published for the Tr6 exhaust... guestimating the exhaust by eye and think I know could be a starting point. Just not sure if that effort will be considered 'close enough' Other difference is the reed and ignition but guess that's it, engine wise.

[wobbly]

The Banshee and the RZ do have ( wierd ) stagger, but as always the issue is that most height dimensions are taken from the deck.
But what is the deck clearance to the timing edge at TDC.
Its the same problem we have with the Merican way of quoting head cc - this is given as a volume on a flat plate - with no reference to deck height or dome volume
so it has no meaning at all.
The only number I can find that I would take as gospel is from an old TSR sample file, it has the stock Ex open at 89.48* = 181.04 Duration, but in Toms file he
has "corrected " the transfers, so I cant confirm yet what the real transfer durations are.

[wobbly]

Here is the link to the kock gauge - you can order with a grounding output to trigger an Ignitech retard function and/or
a 0-5V output for a datalogger.
This really is the best thing since sliced bread.
Its cheap,and works perfectly.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Knock-gauge-...-/111623836064

[ief]

The Banshee and the RZ do have ( wierd ) stagger, but as always the issue is that most height dimensions are taken from the deck.

For rz only from 1986 on.

Not to be a smartarse but if we go like that then there ain't 'a' portiming for the stock banshee since there alway's a little variation.

But true, we have to factor in deckhight, say something like 0.8 for an rz so banshee as wel makes:

Exhaust duration: 184.9
Transfer duration: 119.0
Blowdown duration: 33.0



Gotta start somewhere right.

[chrisc]

Aprilia RSV1000 with a V4 500cc 2 stroke engine. Cylinders from a kart engine, rest made by this dude Cristian Polverelli for his own personal amusement. What an awesome project.

http://2tiemposracing.com/blog/cristian-polverelli-500/



Google translated:

Cristian Polverelli and artisan 500cc.

While we are talking about the construction by the world-renowned international manufacturer and Suter, with its MMX 500cc.

But someone has been able to do the same, with far fewer resources and less time. They are not only large industries can perform miracles.

Cristian Polverelli has managed to build something really special, it has built a 500cc 4-cylinder 2-stroke; but he has done something even bigger and is not palpable. It has provided data to build 500cc engines with really economic costs and far from what people may think of the cost of a 500cc.polverelli_test_misano-10

What prompted Cristian to carry out such a difficult project? Just passion, which stands as the basis of motorcycling :. "I am 41 years old, I grew up in the age of 125 2 times when I have learned to tune their engines as RGV 250, I felt that I was missing a motorcycle as well. 4 times street are fine, but wanted to use bikes 2 times. I love the "back" of the 500 2-stroke, 4 escapes, I want to see the faces of those coming from behind. "Achieving this has taken me much time and effort I started the project in 2010, although the bike in my head I quickly finished, the problem was that my head wanted to make all his pieces by hand. I worked on it during my free time. " Cristian has worked hard to achieve his dream, and most of the bike was made with his own hands, as the crankcase pressure sand or crankshaft. The chassis and swingarm are Aprilia RSV 1000, while the change is an MV Agusta F4, the engine has been built around these parts. Could have done cylinders, but implied increase my budget and extend the project too, he decided to use four-cylinder Seven, firm specializing in karting.polverelli_test_misano-1

A bike that could have reduced construction time pieces already made, but Cristian decided that the road would be adapted to their possibilities, a craftsman and delicate work that certainly would be really satisfying for the protagonist.

"I have not done for indecent exposure," he continues Cristian, "it was enough to get a 120/130 hp engine, which for personal use and taking into account that weighs 140 kg more than the bike is sufiente. You can get more power but would be usable only with an advanced electronic system management ". What if someone asks you sell an engine like yours? "In fact, I've had offers to build 4 engines for Germany and 10 for England, but for the moment this is not my intention. I did it for personal satisfaction, and after years working on it, I have succeeded. Now let's set it up. If the bike is shown reliable, why not build more engines ?, but for now it is not my intention. Seeing that has attracted attention has been really amazing, a bike created for me my project. I can say I'm on top of happiness. "

[wobbly]

Re LSR attempts on the salt.
I built the pipes for Kiwi - Cory Bertelson's records on a Honda RS250 at Bonneville and as far as tuning is concerned with a
two stroke there are two important factors.
You must run a flat line advance thru the area used from peak Hp into the overev region.
This is to prevent the natural cycle of more retard = more heat = more power = more rpm = richer jetting needed when sitting at your peak speed due to aero and friction.
Once the motor/pipe temp stabilizes, the pipe heat remains constant, as does the fueling then needed for that power level.

Second thing, is to get on the pace as fast as possible,as the weather changes during the day, you should already have a RAD jetting chart done with a load control dyno
so you can do constant rpm at peak power - long enough for the power and egt to stabilize.
If you jet for peak power on a specific day,this will translate into a specific egt number, at a specific RAD.
Do this twice with very different weather combinations, and you can then draw up a chart with a straight line relationship between RAD and jet size.

Here is one for a KZ10 kart engine ( that also has by the way, a straight line ignition ) that was generated using 3 different days, but hitting the same egt on
each day of 640*C ,that was also the peak power egt, before deto, on a constant accelerating inertia dyno - exactly the conditions the kart engine runs under.
This has been used for probably a dozen completely differing RAD days, and I usually change jets every heat race to stay exactly on 640*C, no guessing at all involved.
It has won every race meeting except one second place last year, when we fucked the good motor by leaving all its water on the track.

[oldjohnno]

Thank you Wob, I can't tell you how much I appreciate help like this. Re the target EGT, I'm guessing that if the max hp EGT is only slightly under the det limit then you'd choose that EGT less some safety margin? And where there is some gap between the max power EGT and the onset of det then the actual max power EGT would be the target? My dyno can hold a constant load, so I should be able to maintain it at peak long enough to allow temperatures to fully stabilise as well as verify that the piston will (probably) survive the duration of a run.

[oldjohnno]

What's the general consensus - no, scratch that - what's the smart thing to do with hp measurements to get consistent, meaningful numbers over a range of weather conditions? SAE J1349 JUN90 or some other correction routine? Rules of thumb? Recommended weather instrumentation?

[wobbly]

I contacted Ed Erlenbach about the Banshee ports and here is the map for a stock cylinder.
The numbers are to TDC and with stock pistons there is usually 0.25mm of deck height.
So the TSR number for the Ex port was correct at 30.12 = 89.7atdc = 180.58 duration with 2mm piston offset.

Re dyno correction - I have always used SAE J1349 ( 298K ) and have calibrated my laptop weather station ( called WeatherWatch from
Ozzy company DTec ) that I use at the track, to read the same as the dynos built in unit ( SportsDevices ).
The DTec reads out Temp,RH, Baro,Dyno correction and RAD thru usb connection.
But for an aircooled engine you will need a hand held weather station that has a wind speed detector on it, this way you can arrange the correct air
speed from the dyno cooling fans to get the pipes operating in the same air conditions they see on the salt.
Many are available but make sure it has a direct read out in RAD or Density Altitude and use one or the other all the time, from the same gauge all the time.

[Lef16]

Thank you wob,
my knock gauge is working fine.
Now it's time to set up ignitech and fire up the bike.
Could you give me some guidence for ignitech's advance map?
Cheers

[ief]

I contact Ed Erlenbach about the Banshee ports and here is the map for a stock cylinder.
The numbers are to TDC and with stock pistons there is usually 0.25mm of deck height.
So the TSR number for the Ex port was correct at 30.12 = 89.7atdc = 180.58 duration with 2mm piston offset.

Funny that this is just the one not posted on his site and all else are (looked there as well) but now all is known for sure, tnx Ed (great site with lots of info)

[nitro2tfx]

I contacted Ed Erlenbach about the Banshee ports and here is the map for a stock cylinder.
The numbers are to TDC and with stock pistons there is usually 0.25mm of deck height.
So the TSR number for the Ex port was correct at 30.12 = 89.7atdc = 180.58 duration with 2mm piston offset.

If you like I could play with a rz pack file i have and turn it into the banshee and see if I can get a curve out of it resembling the curve published for the Tr6 exhaust...

Thanks, guys, I think I have enough info now to get going on it.

[peewee]

I contacted Ed Erlenbach about the Banshee ports and here is the map for a stock cylinder.
The numbers are to TDC and with stock pistons there is usually 0.25mm of deck height.
So the TSR number for the Ex port was correct at 30.12 = 89.7atdc = 180.58 duration with 2mm piston offset.

Re dyno correction - I have always used SAE J1349 ( 298K ) and have calibrated my laptop weather station ( called WeatherWatch from
Ozzy company DTec ) that I use at the track, to read the same as the dynos built in unit ( SportsDevices ).
The DTec reads out Temp,RH, Baro,Dyno correction and RAD thru usb connection.
But for an aircooled engine you will need a hand held weather station that has a wind speed detector on it, this way you can arrange the correct air
speed from the dyno cooling fans to get the pipes operating in the same air conditions they see on the salt.
Many are available but make sure it has a direct read out in RAD or Density Altitude and use one or the other all the time, from the same gauge all the time.

some time back I bought a few junk yami twin cylinders for the only purpose of practice welding. luckily you found that map so I don't have to dig these stone age buggers out from under the bench . I never did figure why the B floor was lower than A. my brain was hurting the more I tried to understand why so I gave up

[2T Institute]

The current edition of Old Bike Australasia magazine has a great story on the late Bert Flood. It mentions Berts speed attempts on his 350 Bul drag bike in '76, when he ran 152 on a closed-off section of the Northern Highway. Apparently he seized on the first run and had to do a hasty roadside rebuild before backing it up. Some good photos too, I'll put a couple up later.

I wouldn't even try to run petrol on the lake; it'd almost certainly end in tears.

Forget Bert(s) and concentrate on what your going to do. As Mark said the opportunity just to test is very limited. Your testing will be when your there. Water cooled on petrol might be a better option than methanol.

This is what it will be my mates record 133mph production 250 run

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAF6...ature=youtu.be

[arc100]

deleted post.