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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #23506
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    Quote Originally Posted by manolis View Post
    A “free forum” like this is the ideal way to share such knowledge.
    Thanks
    Manolis Pattakos
    That in some cases could be true, but the real issue is that you are showing disrespect for people who are enjoying their thread and are happy sifting through stuff, trying it out and not looking for huge gains.

    For one reason or another they enjoy doing what they are doing and discussing the results, they are happy doing it - can you understand that?
    I feel that you can't, so that (in forum terms) makes you a "troll".

    I tried to point it out to you earlier, but you insist that you know best and can do what you like and don't seem to understand (or care ) what other people might like. - What are you hoping to achieve by that attitude?
    Do you ever do anything tangible, like actually seeing these ideas work through your own efforts in a workshop?

    That's what they like to do here in NZ, not to mention Australia, and all the other countries also often represented in the forum, happily helping and advising each other. So please let it get back to that.

    Do some people in Greece (or wherever you live) still do that ?. - 2500 years ago they could!
    Strokers Galore!

  2. #23507
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    One problem we are facing here is that " we " spent a huge amount of time discussing at length what we thought was the next big advancement
    in 2T technology.
    This was shrouded in secrecy and mystery, and of course we all wanted it to be better than sliced bread.
    As it turned out the whole Ryger affair simply turned out to be a complete waste of everyone's efforts.

    I have pointed out before that many people on this forum have a real need to be helped along the way to understanding what makes the current
    2T state of the art work properly,and I am more than happy to give out my experiences in this cause.
    Buggering about with " the next big thing " is not what this particular forum is about - please take it somewhere else,quickly.
    Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.

  3. #23508
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    Quote Originally Posted by wobbly View Post
    Buggering about with " the next big thing " is not what this particular forum is about - please take it somewhere else,quickly.
    Well said Wobbly, especially as there are other threads where this can be discussed - even on this forum. Time for me to bow out and let you guys get on with it! it's been very good up till now, keep it up.
    Strokers Galore!

  4. #23509
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    Well said Wobbly, especially as there are other threads where this can be discussed - even on this forum. Time for me to bow out and let you guys get on with it! it's been very good up till now, keep it up.
    Wobbly and WilDun. Even though I am only an occasional forum participant, like many I view this forum daily. Over time I have come to understand this forums culture. A culture that is based upon camaraderie, with a hierarchy not tied to popularity or finances, but instead one positioned by integrity, and mutual respect. Thanks to all that contribute to this end. Kermit Buller

  5. #23510
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilDun View Post
    Well said Wobbly, especially as there are other threads where this can be discussed - even on this forum. Time for me to bow out and let you guys get on with it! it's been very good up till now, keep it up.
    cool , more bucket engine talk . good stuff
    i'm over buckets

  6. #23511
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    All good stuff really, every now and then one needs to stand back and look at the big picture. For me ESE is pretty clear, getting the best out of current design 2 stroke stuff, good advice with a few experiences in there as well. TZ’s progress is classic ESE. For that reason, I have kept the slider stuff under Foundry, which is sort of fair enough in that it had its build origins starting there, despite the germ of an idea originating in ESE.

    However, should I continue there? What if another “Ryger” comes up? What if Fletto invents the best simple DI system anyone could ever dream up, where should he post it? Maybe these should go into Oddball, but it seems to me that this is more historical.

    Maybe we need another thread, eg “Blue sky 2 strokes” or something like that and things like sliders, Ryger V2, Fletto’s sleeve valve, Manolis’s engine, etc could go into there. However, is this fair to Fletto who has progressed his engine all thru Foundry? Means another one to look at each day though. Time, time time.

  7. #23512
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2005bully View Post
    A culture that is based upon camaraderie, with a hierarchy not tied to popularity or finances, but instead one positioned by integrity, and mutual respect. Thanks to all that contribute to this end. Kermit Buller
    That is more or less what Buckets is all about.

  8. #23513
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    25th March 2004 - 17:22
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    I'm sure we can coexist.

    Thursday Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc. We really are blessed to buy this stuff for $11 at the supermarket, although this came from the the bottle store for more but any price this stuff is top notch. Even after some decent beer.
    Don't you look at my accountant.
    He's the only one I've got.

  9. #23514
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    Well actually I haven'tadded a music video for quite some pages. So here it is.

    I didn't like this song first several times I heard it . sounded too nickleback, but then I saw the video and changed my mind.




    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tjk6N7at42o
    Don't you look at my accountant.
    He's the only one I've got.

  10. #23515
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken seeber View Post
    All good stuff really, every now and then one needs to stand back and look at the big picture. For me ESE is pretty clear, getting the best out of current design 2 stroke stuff, good advice with a few experiences in there as well. TZ’s progress is classic ESE. For that reason, I have kept the slider stuff under Foundry, which is sort of fair enough in that it had its build origins starting there, despite the germ of an idea originating in ESE.

    However, should I continue there? What if another “Ryger” comes up? What if Fletto invents the best simple DI system anyone could ever dream up, where should he post it? Maybe these should go into Oddball, but it seems to me that this is more historical.

    Maybe we need another thread, eg “Blue sky 2 strokes” or something like that and things like sliders, Ryger V2, Fletto’s sleeve valve, Manolis’s engine, etc could go into there. However, is this fair to Fletto who has progressed his engine all thru Foundry? Means another one to look at each day though. Time, time time.
    Ok, I may have been a bit short with Manolis, I guess I was just a bit grumpy in that he could present all these nice working CAD pictures and all I've got to show is a few manky bits of metal
    I'm sorry Manolis you can come back now.
    Just don't type such looooong stories please.

  11. #23516
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    Hello WilDun.

    You write:
    “Do you ever do anything tangible, like actually seeing these ideas work through your own efforts in a workshop?”


    If you open the www.pattakon.com web site, you will see how wrong you are.


    For instance,
    at http://www.pattakon.com/pattakonRoller.htm you can find more details about the VVA-roller project of pattakon:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zzW8YkReLU



    In the above youtube video it is a modified to PatRoller Honda Civic VTEC 1600cc (B16A2 engine) accelerating on a public road. The camera is secured on the “driving wheel column”.

    The control shafts are directly connected to the gas pedal by the gas cable. The deeper the gas pedal is pressed, the more the control shafts rotate increasing the valve stroke. When the gas pedal is released the normal valve springs restore the control shafts to their "idling" position.

    Depending on the control shafts angular position the valve lift profile varies continuously from zero (for valve deactivation if desirable), to tiny (for idling), to mild, to medium, to racing (top curve), all in the same engine, all instantly available:



    The Low rpm (green) Valve Lift profile is different for the two intake valves of the same cylinder of the original VTEC engine (similarly for the two exhaust valves of the cylinder).
    The blue curves are only few - of the infinite available - valve lift profiles the "pattakon VVA roller version" provides.

    The quick moving parts are lightweight: the original Honda rocker arm assembly weighs 0.26 Kp while the complete rocker arm of the Pattakon VVA (the two rollers included) is less than 0.15 Kp.

    Even with the toughest valve springs, the engine at normal conditions (i.e. low to medium revs) "feels" (as regards friction, wear etc) by far softer springs.

    The conventional throttle valve is not necessary any longer: the intake valves make the "throttling" (ideal for efficient and cheap ITB).




    Compare the two only modes (with an inevitable “gap” / “hole of torque” between them) of the Honda VTEC with the infinite modes of the modified to PatRoller pattakon Honda Civic: fewer and simpler parts, direct mechanical (instead of hydraulic) control, rolling friction instead of sliding friction, way higher valve lift and valve duration when a lot of power is required, way lower valve lift and valve duration when the car runs in city traffic (no more than 2.5mm valve lift is required in urban cycle) or idles.

    The feeling at low speeds is like driving a torquie truck while at high speeds is like a motorcycle, without holes and gaps in the torque curve.

    You can find the presentation of the system and the required modification in the injection and ignition tables and on the circuitry at http://www.pattakon.com/DVA_files/pattakonVVAs.pdf


    There are many other “tangible” projects of pattakon.
    However, it is wrong to underestimate the theory for the sake of the realization / of the handling.


    I came in this forum after the suggestion (by e-mails) of a couple of guys who insisted that this forum was the ideal place for asking thoughts / opinions / objections about 2-stroke projects (like the PatTwo, the PatATi, the PatPortLess, the PatMar, the OPRE, the PatOP, the Tiling valve, etc of pattakon).

    It seems they were wrong and that I was wrong to follow their advice and press you, the members of this forum, for strictly technical responses.
    The responses were disappointing: anything else than technical.


    In any case thank you for your time.
    Manolis Pattakos

  12. #23517
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    Quote Originally Posted by manolis View Post
    Hello WilDun.

    You write:

    “Do you ever do anything tangible, like actually seeing these ideas work through your own efforts in a workshop?”


    If you open the www.pattakon.com web site, you will see how wrong you are.

    Manolis Pattakos
    Hi Manolis, true there are a lot of interesting ideas on www.pattakon.com , as well as the diagrams you have re posted here I see there are a few working and prototype prof of concept examples on the site too, you have not actually said, but are the projects shown on that site your own work?

  13. #23518
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    Quote Originally Posted by manolis View Post
    I came in this forum after the suggestion (by e-mails) of a couple of guys who insisted that this forum was the ideal place for asking thoughts / opinions / objections about 2-stroke projects (like the PatTwo, the PatATi, the PatPortLess, the PatMar, the OPRE, the PatOP, the Tiling valve, etc of pattakon).
    It seems they were wrong and that I was wrong to follow their advice and press you, the members of this forum, for strictly technical responses.
    The responses were disappointing: anything else than technical.
    In any case thank you for your time.
    Manolis Pattakos
    Manolis,
    I already have seen your site and I said at the beginning of this little spat, that I liked and understood most of what your designs are about (actually quite impressed with some and I have already said that somewhere).

    The only gripe that I (had) was that you came on a bit strong, refusing to go along with the established but unwritten protocol and with very long posts and large "in your face" animations (all repeated in the answers) as well.
    All this in a well established thread on Bucket Racers where everyone was feeling comfortable with what they were doing and you appeared to insult them by implying that what they were doing was already tried and discarded old school stuff and of no consequence. It does appear that a lot of guys are interested in your designs and I agree with them - just not your approach, which although probably unintentional may have appeared a little arrogant to some.
    There was a similar little problem here a few months ago and I thought you would have seen all that then.

    That's really all I want to say except that I am sorry for any misunderstanding - but also hope you will be able see that you may have been sometimes wrong with your approach .
    Strokers Galore!

  14. #23519
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    This thread for a long time has been like regularly dinning at a communal table. Different conversations, different talents, but people with a common interest in two strokes. People who have become friends through show and tell, by openly sharing their ideas while taking an interest in each others achievements.

    Manolis, like any group however friendly and welcoming, for a stranger looking to join, there is a successful social etiquette, being loud and trying to set the agenda before being accepted is probably not it.

  15. #23520
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    Same same but different
    Pneumatic controlled valves, free duration,free lobe separation,free valvelift, no throttlebody, lower pumplosses.

    Made in Sweden!

    http://www.freevalve.com/

    Back to twostrokes please

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