ESE's works engine tuner

[wobbly]

The Suter ( in the Pulse was the last version ) wasn't that much of a major " improvement " over conventional designs.
Sure it had the flying web with only two common crankcase volumes, and that made the engine somewhat smaller in width.
But that really wasn't any clear advantage in weight or chassis packaging.
Big issue tho was the insane materials technology and cost needed to keep the crank together long enough.
Edit - shit, I must have gone overboard last night on the single malt - I was talking about the Swiss Auto design.
The " new " Suter is nothing clever at all, the fact they took an untested bike to the TT just indicates where they "think " they stand.
Many VERY clever people have tried to crack the injection nightmare on a true 2T racebike - why they thought they were better than all those who
have tried before, is beyond me.
So of course they failed miserably, on a world stage , and made complete dicks of themselves in the process.
Ask yourself why there isnt a Suter in sight in Moto 2 now - all Kalex.

With the publishing of alot of the cylinder and pipe details of Jans Aprilia, and his willing dissemination of small stuff, like water around the plug threads -
many tuners have been able to go way further than they would have otherwise.
Superkart deigns like FPE,PVP,DEA,BRC etc all used most of the technology,but in the 125 World Champ kart engines the designers are
still well behind.
For my part using Jans design directions, and by seeing what he was trying to achieve, my ability has been hugely helped.
I can never thank him ( and Frits ) along with the old maestro Helmut Fath ( who gave us the exhaust nozzle concept ) enough.
And of course now Neels has given us a deadly accurate simulation tool, there is no "black art " involved, its simply hard work as you said.

[husaberg]

The Suter ( in the Pulse was the last version ) wasn't that much of a major " improvement " over conventional designs.
Sure it had the flying web with only two common crankcase volumes, and that made the engine somewhat smaller in width.
But that really wasn't any clear advantage in weight or chassis packaging.
Big issue tho was the insane materials technology and cost needed to keep the crank together long enough.
Edit - shit, I must have gone overboard last night on the single malt - I was talking about the Swiss Auto design.
The " new " Suter is nothing clever at all, the fact they took an untested bike to the TT just indicates where they "think " they stand.
Many VERY clever people have tried to crack the injection nightmare on a true 2T racebike - why they thought they were better than all those who
have tried before, is beyond me.
So of course they failed miserably, on a world stage , and made complete dicks of themselves in the process.


.

I'll bite Wayne.
The way I see it narrowness of an engine design is not really as important a factor as most think it is.
The reasons are many fold
Firstly the human body is normally the widest part on a bike anyway.
Let alone the fact the width is also decided by the width of the radiator. (Britten did do something about that though)

People swooned over the narrowness and windcutting ability of the V1000 Britten but failed to understand when the rider was on it, it doubled in width anyway.

The Cagiva and the RGV500 plus the YZR500's being twin crank designs were of course narrower than the single crank NSR500, The Swissauto/pulse/ROC ELF) was of course narrower than the single crank Honda as well.(Due to the shared case flying web design)
There is other boons, in two crank designs in regards to Gyro, but ultimately the have more friction and greater losses poorer cramped intakes and less room for transfers. Plus less room for carbs
Sure they are narrower. But its pointless to make it narrower if there is no room for decent swooping transfers and straight intakes. Yamaha Suzuki and Cagiva tried to get mitigate this with 6 main transfer designs.
Below a pic illustrating the compromise Yamaha made in regards to their intakes in the 90's.
I realise you are aware of all of this having designed an engine but I doubt a lot of others actually are.
Effective design is about minimising compromises that effect performance.


note the carbs lead to only 4 petals of the 6

Even the wider spaced Honda sacrifices some intake for width.

Lastly (mute in this situation as it didn't work) but regardless the IOM with its extreme height elevation and weather and atmospheric conditions make it one of the hardest places to carburate a 2t.
I believe they went the Injection route to try and tidy up the intakes.

[WilDun]

Firstly the human body is normally the widest part on a bike anyway.
Let alone the fact the width is also decided by the width of the radiator. (Britten did do something about that though)

I do believe that Greeves cracked that first (on their humble "Silverstone" production racer), with the radiator under the rider.

Lastly (mute in this situation as it didn't work) but regardless the IOM with ins extreme height elevation and weather and atmospheric conditions make it one of the hardest places to carburate a 2t.
I believe they went the Injection route to try and tidy up the intakes.

But what better place to give it a burst? unfortunately you can't hire public roads for testing not even in Switzerland!
So it more or less had to be the TT (in Switzerland the roads might be just as good as the TT course), but to be fair I think they did mention all that beforehand.

Still didn't do much to help the two stroke cause though!. - ok, so back to the technical two stroke stuff!

Oh and HUSA, unfortunately I didn't manage to "nip" out to Mt Wellington today, we had to go out and that idea was "nipped' that in the bud!

[jamathi]

The Suter ( in the Pulse was the last version ) wasn't that much of a major " improvement " over conventional designs.
Sure it had the flying web with only two common crankcase volumes, and that made the engine somewhat smaller in width.
But that really wasn't any clear advantage in weight or chassis packaging.
Big issue tho was the insane materials technology and cost needed to keep the crank together long enough.
Edit - shit, I must have gone overboard last night on the single malt - I was talking about the Swiss Auto design.
The " new " Suter is nothing clever at all, the fact they took an untested bike to the TT just indicates where they "think " they stand.
Many VERY clever people have tried to crack the injection nightmare on a true 2T racebike - why they thought they were better than all those who
have tried before, is beyond me.
So of course they failed miserably, on a world stage , and made complete dicks of themselves in the process.
Ask yourself why there isnt a Suter in sight in Moto 2 now - all Kalex.

With the publishing of alot of the cylinder and pipe details of Jans Aprilia, and his willing dissemination of small stuff, like water around the plug threads -
many tuners have been able to go way further than they would have otherwise.
Superkart deigns like FPE,PVP,DEA,BRC etc all used most of the technology,but in the 125 World Champ kart engines the designers are
still well behind.
For my part using Jans design directions, and by seeing what he was trying to achieve, my ability has been hugely helped.
I can never thank him ( and Frits ) along with the old maestro Helmut Fath ( who gave us the exhaust nozzle concept ) enough.
And of course now Neels has given us a deadly accurate simulation tool, there is no "black art " involved, its simply hard work as you said.

In the end Aprilia finally understood the uselessness of their 500/2
So they bought the Swissauto, but never used it because of the switch to 4-strokes.
Honda parts, or copies of them were mainly used.
And the crankshaft was a real piece of shit, with crankpins welded to the crank webs.
A sure sign of inability in my opinion!
A very bad design!
They also used different exhaust nozzles in each pipe....
A friend of mine made their exhaust pipes.
Later he asked which nozzles made best power.
The answer was: which nozzles do you mean?
They had tested without them!!!!

Once I visited ADM, who made many sidecar engines, also using Honda cylinders, pistons and many other parts.
He made very good crankshafts, really wonderful!
Now he makes copies of old Japanese Works bikes.
Even the carburettors and their parts.
A real artist!!

[TZ350]

Page 1570 .......

Heaps of photos available for purchase here from from CAMS championship round 1 and the BOB
Thanks to Mel at Shoot The Moon Photography .

https://www.facebook.com/Melanie.Smy...95465773916742

Cheers

last race with fat so me in half a hour lol .. https://youtu.be/GGFWHpJCly0

Here's the race the BOB after as I forgot to turn my gopro on for the BOB. Bit shaky but shows a good battle tween one of the GPR boys and Travis Wylie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBlNv1p_Ejg Vid from 3 place getter Ollymoto. the vid is easier to watch, the GPR footage made me

https://youtu.be/SwXXqEl-H3A ... last part 3

part 2 in a hour https://youtu.be/et5-kQ8JJag

great video tim ! thanks again tim and your wife for letting me and the boys stay again ! here is part one of the bob with regan in a hour .
https://youtu.be/heiwEitRnI4

What pipe temps were in the sim ? Pipe temp should be 325 at the bottom of the powerband and 425 at peak power.

Attachment 324493

The last big hurdle was setting up the power valve servo control in the Ignitec software. I have never had a power valve before and had no idea how it is supposed to be done but this is how I went about it.

The first step was to use Ignitec's test routine to run the servo back and forth to get some idea where two thirds open is. This was shown to be about 300mVolts on the servo feedback.

Attachment 324492Attachment 324491

1st step, drew a straight line at 300mV on the power valve map and by adjusting the servo cables adjusted the power valve blade to the fully open position.

Attachment 324489Attachment 324490

2nd step, pull the left side of the map down until the power valve servo has moved to the fully closed position.

Attachment 324488

3rd step, draw a line on the map between the two points.

And there it is, ready for final setup on the dyno.

You can easily see if the open/close settings are correct as the servo is cycled up/down the instant you apply power.
Its way easy to set/adjust the servo if you disconnect the two power wires ( I use a separate plug ) leaving only the
3 wires from the feedback pot.
Then you wind the servo back and forth with grips on the pulley to establish the full up,full down mV positions, then program the numbers.
The trick on the dyno is to do 3 runs, full up,full down, and with the PV at 1/2 height in the cylinder ( NOT 1/2 way on the graph ).
This will show you when to start opening, when to be full open,and what rpm/mV to be at 1/2 height for best power everywhere.

[mr bucketracer]

Page 1570 .......

looks like the natives have dictated what to write on here lol

[WilDun]

looks like the natives have dictated what to wright on here lol

"Wright"? "write"? "rite" ? gotta get it "right" and sorry to be a smartass (couldn't help myself) - forgive me.

Why didn't you go to Mt.Wellington today?

[mr bucketracer]

"Wright"? "write"? "rite" ? gotta get it "right" and sorry to be a smartass (couldn't help myself) - forgive me.

Why didn't you go to Mt.Wellington today?

lol . my rider got second place on a gpr bike . Only 40 kgs heavyer than the winner but 4 stroke wins again he he

[WilDun]

lol . my rider got second place on a gpr bike . Only 40 kgs heavyer than the winner but 4 stroke wins again he he

Ah well, luckily I like fourstrokes (using Castrol 'R') but I have heard that you've got at least two 2T barrels in your posession, - wonder why?

[adegnes]

Been a long time since I posted anything about my Peugeot Spx project, if anyone's interested I can do a little write up on what's been going on. Anyways, I'm currently trying to dial it in on my dyno and I'm experiencing some issues, need advice/help.

My sim of the engine give about 20-21 hp peak @ 15000rpm with 87% combustion efficiency.
The weird thing is dyno runs show only around 13 wheel hp peak @ low 12500rpm - somewhere around 16bhp(wheel/roller0.95 x chain0.95 x variator 0.88, best loss estimate I could come up with)

I've gone through my numbers, the computer model is accurate.
I've jettet up/down and shifted the ignition timing around to no avail.
Ignition energy related?
What's going on?

Max egt ca 600c, cht around 80c, is the low cht telling me something? By doing 6-7 runs in a row without break I can make it touch 110c.

Is my combustion efficiency horrendously low? If I lower it to 75% in the sim it seems to reflect reality with 16hp peak @ around 12500rpm. why?



I'll post sim file later, not at my computer atm.

edit: here ya go! I'll post the dyno graphs too later, different computer.

[adegnes]

and the transfers.


Dyno run.
Read from the big dip, thats when the variator is fully geared out. Under the dip is a combination of untuned variator, clutch slip and me manipulating the ratio with the foot lever. The dip is when I release all pressure from the lever.
Ok repeatability doing it this way.
The rpm readout is about 500 too low, have to adjust the ratio.
Tricky stuff dynoing with the variator doing its thing.

[DaisyB]

Tricky stuff dynoing with the variator doing its thing.

-Use/make a lock-out kit for the variator/rear pully?

[adegnes]

Tricky stuff dynoing with the variator doing its thing.

-Use/make a lock-out kit for the variator/rear pully?

Good idea!
I've also thought about using timing pulleys and a toothed belt, or sprocket and chain. Either way I need to retain the clutch on the jackshaft.
It'll have to wait, need to figure out were I went wrong and fix it!

[wobbly]

Yes, this has been discovered a long time ago - variators chew up a huge amount of rear wheel power and make repeatable dyno
results impossible.
The only way is to use a timing belt/pulleys as you thought to get any accuracy of the engine performance.
What pipe temps were in the sim ?

[adegnes]

Yes, this has been discovered a long time ago - variators chew up a huge amount of rear wheel power and make repeatable dyno
results impossible.
The only way is to use a timing belt/pulleys as you thought to get any accuracy of the engine performance.
What pipe temps were in the sim ?

275c - 10000rpm
375c - 15000rpm

I just discovered the disc valve was loose on the crank, could move 30ish degrees back and forth.
How bad would an engine perform with say 175/55 or 115/115 inlet timing?
I'll clean and loctite it real good this time, crossing fingers!