ESE's works engine tuner

**ken seeber** · 25th October 2016, 23:43

After the last quick and dirty seal friction test, which was pretty rudimentary, I thought that we’d do better. So, turned up a bit of Delrin with a seal in both ends. This was slid over a length of stock chrome & ground Ø20 bar. This had been drilled so the inside cavity between the two seals could be pressurised. This was done using a diaphragm carb pressure tester. It was tested at atmospheric pressure and then 8 psi (sorry about the units). As you can see it was again a static test. Well almost static, as we based the torque required on its ability to break static friction and just lightly rotate. Shaft was well covered in oil prior to assembly.

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So, any thoughts on the results? Just the percentage difference in torque between atmospheric pressure and 8 psi (which is probably a bit above actual crankcase peak +ve pressures). Was it double or halved or the same or whatevered......?
No prizes though, as Australia is going through a financial crisis.

**tjbw** · 25th October 2016, 23:57

About 54% higher?

**Frits Overmars** · 26th October 2016, 00:17

Originally Posted by ken seeber

It was tested at atmospheric pressure and then 8 psi (sorry about the units).

At least you're aware of this hundredweight-furlong-fortnight foolishness instead of our civilized kilogram-meter-second units, so you're forgiven, Ken.

As you can see it was again a static test. Well almost static, as we based the torque required on its ability to break static friction and just lightly rotate.

You could give the shaft a slight vibration with a violin bow.

EDIT: the weight pulling on the circumference of the Delrin part is also loading the seals, so in principle you should put a central bearing in that will take the weight away from the seals. Or, the larger you make the Delrin part diameter, the less weight will be required to create the necessary torque.

EDIT 2: never mind me and my bright ideas. Of course you could increase the diameter until the necessary weight approaches zero, but then the weight of the Delrin itself approaches infinity

.

**Sketchy_Racer** · 26th October 2016, 00:20

Hmmmm two seals just over 0.55 bar i'm going to go with 110%

**adegnes** · 26th October 2016, 01:37

Thumbs up for performing the tests!
200% from me, go high or go home!

**wobbly** · 26th October 2016, 08:14

The static lip seal friction I would have thought to be less than 1/3 of the pressurized value.

**Larry Wiechman** · 26th October 2016, 11:32

Then do the same test with a few inches (sorry Frits) of vacuum. A worn seal will sometimes test OK under pressure. Vacuum changes the dynamic. Put a flowmeter between the test piece and the vacuum gauge. It's interesting to see how much depression it takes to overcome the seal.

**jacobson_se** · 26th October 2016, 23:20

I have a Tz125 97/98 with cylinders from Bartol. Some of the pipes are stamped with MZB.
Wobbly do you have anything to do with the pipes or know who MZB is?

/Christer

**Lef16** · 26th October 2016, 23:25

Hey guys,
I have a problem,trying to set up ignitech on a wr200 engine(tuned).
What I want to know is what feels like when the bike is over advanced and what when advance is too low.
What I feel from the bike on the road,is like it can't release it's full potential power,and from 9500 power is dropping off,at 10000 the bike is dead like it has a rev-limiter there.
And in some cases it is not hitting the power band at all and it's having momential blackouts.
Advance is 25* maximum,14* at 9000 and 11* at 10500.
I'm pretty sure this is not fuel problem,but electrical.
Please answer me as soon as possible,
Cheers

**F5 Dave** · 27th October 2016, 06:15

Straight line 15deg and check static timing is right. Also it should run smoothly like that if somewhat weak at lower revs, but that confirms if its not fueling, check battery voltage while you run it up.

**wobbly** · 27th October 2016, 07:35

Dave is right.The WR200 will time at 1.18mm for 15*,so set the piston there and mark the rotor and stator
in an easily seen position.
Strobe it with a 15* straight line program and check that the base timing is correct.
But depending upon the mods, too much advance will kill overev power dead.
Easy way to check what it likes , once the base timing is verified, is to add say 3* of base - this will retard the whole curve 3* from "actual ".
If it then revs better, you know what to do with the curve.
Then of course if the egt drops in the upper rpm, you have too much advance or com for the fuel, and deto is just around the corner.

MZB is a huge parts supplier, mainly for scooters, but no I have not done any designs for them.

**wobbly** · 27th October 2016, 08:14

I know this isnt the correct forum for this but a bunch of people on here wanted a bypass thermostat urgently.
They are done, and I have a few not going to be anodised.
If you want one send me a PM with delivery info.