ESE's works engine tuner

[tjbw]

Last page, finally got here after months (only 1605 pages and 24000 posts read)
My complements to All the contributors, over the 8 years, SO MUCH great information.

Here is a pic from an old patent that seems to contain some relevant elements of a Ryger style engine.

...

A bit more Bleed down STA is required.
The internal piston cooling might need to go, definitely rev limiting and not KISSable.
And it should have a 24/7 flap valve in the inlet to the transfer chamber.

Congratulations Daryl, and thanks for that interesting patent find.

Imagine a Ryger without piston ring friction etc, must be worth at least 80HP

[Frits Overmars]

Last page, finally got here after months (only 1605 pages and 24000 posts read) My complements to All the contributors, over the 8 years, SO MUCH great information.

Thanks Daryl. Now, if you've regained your breath, here's some more reading. It's only 302 more pages, a piece of cake for someone with your perseverance.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...totypes/page70

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...oundry/page177

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...chassis/page55

Here is a pic from an old patent that seems to contain some relevant elements of a Ryger style engine.

Don't go there. I would not want you to hurt your brain after all those nice words that you just wrote.
From your nickname, may I take it that this logo is not completely alien to you?

My first post here, so I would like to thank everyone on this thread. I've been blown away by the generosity and cooperation of you guys. This is the best thing I've read in years.

Thanks Nick. We'll drink to that .

[Pursang]

Imagine a Ryger without piston ring friction etc, must be worth at least 80HP

and 30,000 rpm potential.

Ring-less piston solves a number of problems and satisfies Harry Ryger's own statement.

Piston cooling & heat transfer by a fresh air/fuel charge in the gap each revolution.
Even cooling and lack of mechanical contact keep bore & piston round so the gap can be very narrow.

Protected from the combustion by the squish band and the narrowness of the gap itself.
The trapped squish gas (cooler) is first to go back down the gap.
Combustion pressure front chases the descending piston so leakage down the gap is relatively small.

Any Pressure loss is returned to the transfer chamber, for use next cycle.

2 sealing rings are fitted, at the top & bottom of the cross head linear bearing.

Cheers, Daryl.

"First they tell you you're wrong, and they can prove it.
Then they tell you you're right, but it's not important.
Then they tell you it is important, but they knew it all along."
Charles Kettering.

[Pursang]

Don't go there. I would not want you to hurt your brain after all those nice words that you just wrote.
From your nickname, may I take it that this logo is not completely alien to you?

Thanks Frits, but it's too late too protect this poor brain.

Yes, love my Bully's. They defy just about every element of modern, acceptable 2T practice, (except, perhaps, some bits of expansion chamber design) but despite all that produced great results in their time.

I'll get stuck into the other threads soon.

Cheers, Daryl.

[Flettner]

My first post here, so I would like to thank everyone on this thread. I've been blown away by the generosity and cooperation of you guys. This is the best thing I've read in years.

Nice, 73 Kawasaki, good year!

[lodgernz]

I believe your formula is exactly the same except the top and bottom of your formula are both multiplied by 4. Dividing both the top and bottom by 4 gives 2h on the bottom so both formulae should give the same answer.

Your maths is a bit rusty I fear.

My formula can be simplified to:

(d^2)/8h + h/2

Not the same as yours at all.

Run some numbers through both formulae and compare the results.
For my bike's head, the dome radius is 77mm with my formula, 2063mm with yours. Bit of a difference.

[EssexNick]

Nice, 73 Kawasaki, good year!

Thanks, but this one is a total heap. It is, however, the reason I found my way here. I'm looking at the motor with a few ideas and this is the place to be.

[adegnes]

Last page, finally got here after months (only 1605 pages and 24000 posts read)
My complements to All the contributors, over the 8 years, SO MUCH great information.

My first post here, so I would like to thank everyone on this thread. I've been blown away by the generosity and cooperation of you guys. This is the best thing I've read in years.

+1

New series!
Clickbait? What? Who, me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXyGJ8f8F78

[emess]

Your maths is a bit rusty I fear.

My formula can be simplified to:

(d^2)/8h + h/2

Not the same as yours at all.

Run some numbers through both formulae and compare the results.
For my bike's head, the dome radius is 77mm with my formula, 2063mm with yours. Bit of a difference.

You are absolutely right lodgernz. I can only claim bracket dyslexia for mangling your formula and crap memory for getting my original post wrong.

On checking carefully (like I should have before) I see the formula should read (h^2 + r^2) / 2h

where r is the radius of the tube not the diameter.

This one does give exactly the same result as your formula and has been used successfully to make several heads.

[Hemi Makutu]

well im still trying to get this ktm head sorted out. made the first cut and the squish band angle was way off. thought the piston dome was 17* but i was wrong. made another cut about 15.5* and its still to steep so ill try to figure it out on paper before anymore cuts. i wont be able to cut the radius in the head band to match the piston but should i try to get close to a paralell / slightly diverging toward bore center squish gap ?

Hey P-W, Check out what Dick does with them..

http://www.dicksracing.com/motorcycl...rmance#2stroke

[Flettner]

Hey P-W, Check out what Dick does with them..

http://www.dicksracing.com/motorcycl...rmance#2stroke

WOW, 'power channels' in the head.

[Hemi Makutu]

'Singh grooves' maybe?



Or, like here: http://www.datafan.com/twostroketuni...ngbimotion.php

Bet you know what this one is, eh Flettner...



See: http://www.klemmvintage.com

Have to comment, Klemm seem a bit too self-satisfied about getting 180 Km/h from a Kawasaki H1 triple..
..when the original `69 models did 200 Km/h showroom stock, & won their class at the Bol d' Or 24 Hour...

[Pursang]

'Singh grooves' maybe?

Had a good discussion on those years ago in the 'Banger' thread on the HAMB. (Bangers are 4cyl Flatheads).

Flatheads have shocking shaped chambers and some directional control of gas from the squish might be helpful.
(in high performance ones the squish can be 90% of the piston area).

My thought is that the grooves allow the flame front(s) to access the squished gasses and allow them to be burnt as part of the combustion process.
i.e. The combustion pressure forces the flame deep into the squish via the groove channels. The descending piston allows room for the combustion.

If it actually works, it's a good thing.

Don't want them in a Ringless engine.

"First they tell you you're wrong, and they can prove it.
Then they tell you you're right, but it's not important.
Then they tell you it is important, but they knew it all along."
Charles Kettering.

[Hemi Makutu]

Yeah, some of these 'groove' ideas have been around for a while...

Decades ago, when I was into original Triumphs, amongst the 'porting lore' was a high comp piston 'trick'..

The deep hemispherical dome of the Triumph head made room for big valves, but then needed a real lumpy piston
to fill it up for a decently high comp ratio.. which tended to block flame travel from the spark plug.. ( the big valves
didn't leave room for a centrally mounted plug).. & twin plug head conversions were costly..

The Triumph 'tuner' approach was to cut a 'flame groove' across the edge of the piston crown from the ( indexed)
plug to the top of the combustion chamber, & yeah, it too was reputed to be worth the ( minimal) effort of doing...

[TZ350]

'Singh grooves' maybe?



Or, like here: www.datafan.com/twostroketuningbimotion/twostroketuningbimotion.php

I can see the possible sense in using a flame grove in a 4T but the talk is not positive about them for a 2T. But if anyone wants to front with a bike fitted with one of these heads and an identical head without the groves I would be happy to run a back to back dyno test on them for free so long as the results and pictures can be posted on here.