ESE's works engine tuner

[richban]

I wasn't trying to troll. I wanna see these one off things screaming and reliable.

Well you will see them at the Suzuki Series Drew. Screaming yes, Reliable Yes, Really really fast, Yes! I had the first shake down laps on the new 300. I say new as the list of parts changed sure made it feel like a new bike. On the engine side it got New Carbs, crank seals, V force reeds, total loss, electric water pump and R6 raditor, and the big one new pipes. On the chassis side new lighter wheels. KTM 690 duke wheels are very light. I dropped a rotor and caliper and replace it with New Brembo M50 single caliper and RCS master cylinder. New ali sub frame. It is so crazy fast. I will post some pic's when I get a mo.

[bjorn.clauw.1]

That's great advice, thanks!
Reminds me of when I had spent hours trying to pound out the stator in the motor I use for my dyno, each hammer blow moved it 0.5mm or so. Halfway there I realized I could use a screw type car jack and get the job done without breaking a sweat.

Hi adegnes, been looking through your videos. Really enjoyed them. On your dyno, I noticed you use an inductive pickup on your ignition lead of the engine to measure rpm via arduino. Do you have some more info on the circuit used? My rpm signal comes from my crank pickup but it would be nice if i could graph the ignition curve realtime (to confirm my programmed values)

[Drew]

Well you will see them at the Suzuki Series Drew. Screaming yes, Reliable Yes, Really really fast, Yes! I had the first shake down laps on the new 300. I say new as the list of parts changed sure made it feel like a new bike. On the engine side it got New Carbs, crank seals, V force reeds, total loss, electric water pump and R6 raditor, and the big one new pipes. On the chassis side new lighter wheels. KTM 690 duke wheels are very light. I dropped a rotor and caliper and replace it with New Brembo M50 single caliper and RCS master cylinder. New ali sub frame. It is so crazy fast. I will post some pic's when I get a mo.

Interesting. From what I saw on Friday, reliability seemed to still be elusive. Unless that was a different white NSR of course

[Flettner]

I've heard all the arguments. What is the biggest problem?

We need a choice of piston & liner materials that will allow uniform(ish) circumferential expansion and a constant(ish) narrow gap within the operational range of a performance two-stroke engine. Add in piston stroke linearity, squish management, lubrication and thermal control.

In the words of a well known automotive Boof-head, "How hard can it be?".

Even if it's "rocket science", we managed to put men on the moon & brought them back, nearly 50 years ago.

I shall mention it No More, unless I've got something to run on a dyno.

Cheers, Daryl.

quote: "Pursang is a glorious beacon of light"

"First they tell you you're wrong, and they can prove it.
Then they tell you you're right, but it's not important.
Then they tell you it is important, but they knew it all along."
Charles Kettering.

The sleeve engine is ringless (on the sleeve to block), as in the RR Crecy. Sleeve is supposed to expand until it transfers enough heat to the block then, shrink slightly, supposed to maintain a constant clearance. can you believe that?

[adegnes]

Hi adegnes, been looking through your videos. Really enjoyed them. On your dyno, I noticed you use an inductive pickup on your ignition lead of the engine to measure rpm via arduino. Do you have some more info on the circuit used? My rpm signal comes from my crank pickup but it would be nice if i could graph the ignition curve realtime (to confirm my programmed values)

Thanks!
Here's the circuit diagram for my arduino dyno shield:



The ignition pickup circuit is basically the same as used by Sportdevices, but with more decoupling.

http://www.sportdevices.co.uk/rpm_readings/index.htm

[bjorn.clauw.1]

Thanks, this will be a big help!

[bjorn.clauw.1]

+1 on your crank truing vid. I made a jig that holds the crank webs in allignment when I press. I normally put some green loctite in the holes in the crankwebs (a little, so there is no exces that comes out and glues your big end solid,... don't ask). They always come out true. Until last, when the pressure gage of my hydraulic press broke and I decided to eyeball it. pushed too hard and had misallignment. Frits his method with the bolt worked nicely. The axial missaligment was an other story. Gently tapping was no longer enough to adjust it. Got it true in the end though.

Wondering if it's a good idea now to put some loctite in the holes on the crankweb (or if it even helps at all)? Comes from a rotax manual I believe.

jig looks like this



this looks interesting. Never tried it though. (maybe beef it up a little)

[Pursang]

The sleeve engine is ringless (on the sleeve to block), as in the RR Crecy. Sleeve is supposed to expand until it transfers enough heat to the block then, shrink slightly, supposed to maintain a constant clearance. can you believe that?

Well, Eddie Gass (great name) , RR & I could. What did you find?

Cheers, DJ

Pursang is no longer "a glorious beacon of light".

"First they tell you you're wrong, and they can prove it.
Then they tell you you're right, but it's not important.
Then they tell you it is important, but they knew it all along."
Charles Kettering.

[Pursang]

Here is some real good information, from a company that has been around engines for a while.



Friction power loss from piston skirt contact is 15 or more times greater than that from the rings.

And they are talking about a piston like this:

4T and 3 rings and a tiny little skirt that wouldn't cover a decent exhaust port (or pair of knickers).

Conclusion 1: Ringless IS Too Hard for the benefit achieved.
Coaxial/Linear/non-contact piston motion is a Winner.

Conclusion 2: If we only spoke of what we Know, instead of what we Think....The Internet would be a very quiet place.

Cheers, Daryl

First they tell you you're wrong, and they can prove it....and they Were Right.
Daryl Jones

[Hemi Makutu]

The sleeve engine is ringless (on the sleeve to block), as in the RR Crecy. Sleeve is supposed to expand until it transfers enough heat to the block then, shrink slightly, supposed to maintain a constant clearance. can you believe that?

See post # 24118 for the patterns.

I mean - as cut into the outer face of the steel sleeve, or alternatively on the barrel it rides in, as a tribology aid.

In fact, that research mob I linked earlier, who are doing tribology-based diamond-like surface self-coating tech,
- might well be interested in a trial of it - in your hard-duty S-V application too, Flettner.

[TZ350]

Thanks Daryl, interesting, I did,t know the skirt friction was so much compared to the ring.

[Hemi Makutu]

Yeah Daryl, those super high rpm 4T pistons running extreme bore to stroke ratios have plenty of issues which don't apply to 2Ts..

These self-defeating frictional/pumping losses were part of the reason F1 went to high efficiency forced induction..

[Pursang]

Thanks Daryl, interesting, I did,t know the skirt friction was so much compared to the ring.

Neither did I, but I'm sure someone did.

Quick easy dyno experiment: 1X used piston, cut a ring groove around the skirt, shouldn't need a full skirt because it's below the ports & not holding any pressure, just the skirt off the bore. Fit a worn in/out ring, check that it doesn't drop out the bottom of the liner, check ring gap through stroke & pin it to prevent rotation.

Easier than most things you have tried.

PS, don't expect it to last too long and don't use your good barrel.

cheers, Daryl.

[tjbw]

Here is some real good information, from a company that has been around engines for a while.

....

If the top ring friction force is nearly 50N at TDC how can the ring power loss at TDC be zero?

[Pursang]

Yeah Darryl, those super high rpm 4T pistons running extreme bore to stroke ratios have plenty of issues which don't apply to 2Ts..

These self-defeating frictional/pumping losses were part of the reason F1 went to high efficiency forced induction..

I'm pretty sure F1 are told what type of engines they Must use?

But yes, those F1 strokes were Very short.
Comparatively long stroke 2T's will experience significant friction losses at lower piston speeds.
The Ricardo info was based on sports racing engines, not F1.

The friction issue is due to asperity (roughness).
Four strokes have their smooth liners 'wiped clean' by the oil rings each stroke.
Two strokes have all sorts of crap & particles passing in and out the ports and sticking into the piston surface.

Cheers, Daryl.