ESE's works engine tuner

[WilDun]

Yes.. but there are better ways to get people to listen.
Negativity either good or bad,, makes me just think the person is a.... 'wellwhateveryouwannacallit'.
If using some competence in handling people one can ask leading questions and then lead the person in the directions one want them to go.
Rgds

Well, no doubt, he trained as an engineer not as an engineering psychologist, however I believe he might have been wanting to warn those amongst us (including myself) with a lesser knowledge of engineering maths etc. about all the stresses involved and to seek out someone who would understand all this, to be his mentor, as opposed to just copying what they saw in pictures, guessing sizes, materials etc,
Any "whateveryouwannacallit", or "fuckwit" (as we say down here) is capable of building one of these things, but does he understand the forces he may be dealing with?

Now, having got all that off my chest, your efforts so far have actually quite impressed me - but I do hope that you don't end up as a mural on the ceiling to remind others that life is precious ........ good luck with the project.

[Frits Overmars]

If using some competence in handling people one can ask leading questions and then lead the person in the directions one want them to go.

Patrick, I never claimed any competence in handling people. And if you wish to be mad at me because of the way I expressed my concern, so be it.
Now I have two leading questions for you. How did you calculate the maximum safe rpm for your roller? And what was the outcome?

[adegnes]

Coming along!
Peak power is still more of a waving flat spot than a peak, more to be had!
More timing and jetting + switchable powerjet next.

[SwePatrick]

I had help with calculating, but a comparison you could think about is an oxygenebottle.
They burst at ca 5500psi, or ca 350bar pressure.
They got 1/4" thickness in material, seamless tube.

Can´t remember the formula but we were calculating the force pushing the tube i´ve got (1 inch thickness, seamless)
If it was a gasbottle it would easily take 22000psi of internal pressure before bursting(~1500bar)
Kg and bar is almost the same pressure when having it press on a scale.

Anyway, to get the concrete to get up in that insane pressure(pressure on the tube is almost, if not the same pressure as a weight pushing from inside) you need to place a blastcharge inside and set it off
As the concrete has minimum diam of 60mm and maximum of 250mm one need a quite complicated formula that i need to get from my friend at Chalmers.

And, this 2% i was talking about, did i ever say i locked it into the roller, 100% sealed?
Nope i didn´t, you see.
To get the concrete to fully burn, i need to evacuate the excess water, and what did ya know, i left air holes at the sides of the roller.
And,, what did ya know number 2, the concrete didn´t ferment(word?) into the holes at all, funny enough.
But it has a logical explanation, the water took some space also......

However, if calculating a 1kg mass at 125mm radius at 4000rpm.
I get ~2236kg of centrifugal mass, but this is not the correct way, as it is like a 1kg ball(body) rotating at 4000rpm in 125mm radius.
In this case i got a body rotating around it´s own axle.

And if i remember correctly, it came back to me while writing all this 'nonsense' above, 90kg mass rotating around it´s own axle in 4000rpm with 125mm radius will have 201kgf

Rgds.

[TZ350]

Page 1640........

If there's a gear running on a bush on the shaft, you will need an internal feed too...Found this with GSXR boxes, the bush for 3rd in the middle of the 6 speed 750 box was the weak spot. Up the feed to it and you could put the 750 box in an 1100.
But of course it's an old box too....

The Mercedes Aux pump, the lads in the uk swear by them
this is possibly a bit heavy http://www.xylemflowcontrol.com/mari...fugal-pump.htm range rover one does 4 yankie gallons per minute http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOSCH-AUXILL...5T~gH0&vxp=mtr

that heavy one is about 1200 NZD
this one although small output is smaller draw and lighter and made for hot water
http://www.lusty-blundell.co.nz/afaw...ctdetails.html
http://www.condorpumps.com/core/medi...3c7967706d5026

They are 12 volt variable speed about 50-60 liters/min peak and will need a controller to work at peak efficiency.

http://www.miataturbo.net/engine-per...troller-69420/

Attachment 328056Attachment 328057

My $50 intercooler pump has been the bastion of reliability. Wish I'd found it earlier

http://m.ebay.com/itm/CXRacing-12V-D...%257Ciid%253A4

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1130079948

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article...rt-2-&A=107760
Subaru

or different syle to earlier smaller aux one i posted bmw http://prussianmotors.com/empower/images/inv_002617.jpg

BMW-x5-4-4i-4-6is-4-8is-

Pierburg specs http://armtek.ru/downloads/pg_.pdf

plug for pierburg

Attachment 328085

different flow rates

Attachment 328086

discussion around various pumps

http://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/4...w-about-5.html

Mercedes e-klass circulationpump:

https://www.google.se/search?q=merce...ih=655#imgrc=_

Attachment 328062

Thanks for the suggestions. I now have a couple of these coming, not sure how good they are but will give them a try. Big issue is current draw, I am not sure what it is for these, but hopefully small, as I have limited current reserves from the engines alternator, 2-3 amps is all there is to spare.

I have measured several of these kind, and they all were between 0,8 and 1,5 amps. I think you should be fine.

Great selection of 12 Volt water pumps.

is that the same one as this bosch ? says its 1 kg and 20 l/m

http://www.frozenboost.com/liquid-ai...02-p-1001.html

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/image...0392022002.pdf

found this test of a few small pumps including the bosch. problem with some other pumps is I think they require higher than 3a and they can be well over 200usd

http://www.lingenfelter.com/forum_li...esting-results

Would it be easier and possibly less expensive in the long run to buy a Davies Craig pump and possibly the controller too?

http://daviescraig.com.au/electric-water-pumps

As is this bosch one

http://www.metricmind.com/products/bosch-pa-66-gf-30/

http://www.bosch-ibusiness.com/boaaw...3?locale=en_GB

Mechanical Oil pumps.

An FZR250 oil pump might be used as well. Completely self contained with in/out ports and a drive shaft. They bolt to the engines just in front of the drive sprocket. The water pump piggy backs on the oil pump. Could be fitted with a simple adaptor for the oil lines and possibly electrically driven.

Also look at the Honda ATVs and scooters, as a lot of them have oil pumps that are chain driven off of a doubled-up cam chain sprocket or a dedicated sprocket on the other side of the crankshaft.

My notes show an XR185/200 oil pump at 1.76:1 reduction (21 drive, 35 driven) is claimed to pump 4.0 L/minute at 8000 RPM, a CB100/125 is 2.4 L/M @ 10000 RPM, the horrid plunger oil pump on a CB175 twin is 3.6 L/M @ 10000. A CM250 twin has the same rotors as an XR185 but 15mm wide instead of 10mm and a 20/40 drive/driven reduction. Honda reuses a lot of the same rotor sets with various gearing changes.

cheers,
Michael

The CRF50 and its many derivatives has a natty little gear pump with a tab drive that could easily be driven on the unused kickstart gear and idler setup.
Attachment 328213Attachment 328214

On another topic the plenum
Kawasaki Disc valve engines had these
Attachment 328217
Attachment 328215
Attachment 328216

Have a look at the little Honda 4T single oil pump - CB100 upwards. Narrow gerotor pump which could be driven by an oldham coupling or similar off the end of a gearbox shaft. Heaps of them around too. Minimal power loss I'd think.

Look at toyota car gearbox, in some of those there´s an internal pump to circulate oil and in GT4´s circulate it into an radiator.

http://s227.photobucket.com/user/jes...31386.jpg.html

You can pull out the gear as it is married to the shaft, and replace the shaft with 'what ever you like'.

Rgds

TZ,

With your Fabrication skills I'm sure you could duplicate most of the components.

http://www.pingelonline.com/air-shif...ar-control.asp

[SwePatrick]

dealing with?

Now, having got all that off my chest, your efforts so far have actually quite impressed me - but I do hope that you don't end up as a mural on the ceiling to remind others that life is precious ........ good luck with the project.

Thank´s =)
I was actually away yesterday buyin some more material for the dyno to add this safety i was talking about.
But at this point, my dragracer is only geared for 150km/h so i´m still quite safe.
In the future there might be an another story thou

[TZ350]

However, if calculating a 1kg mass at 1285mm radius at 4000rpm

Interesting, I am trying to make sence of it all. it will be interesting to see if the numbers eventuall tell us if concreat is a viable method of adding mass.

[SwePatrick]

TZ350, it became an error in your quote, not 1285mm radius, only 125mm

[TZ350]

Sorry SwePatric, I made the post from my phone, hard work, and easy to make editing mistake, sorry.

Anyway it would be good to develop the maths that would allow people to see if concrete would make a viable mass filler (or not) for their dyno steel drum. I once did a lot of work with epoxy impregnating and getting the air out was always the challenge. I wonder if using the suction from a vacuum cleaner would draw the air bubbles out of the concrete. The way it worked with epoxy was that the reduced pressure allowed the trapped air bubbles to expand and float free and work their way to the surface, it might work for concrete too. But if you lowered the pressure over the epoxy to much and hit its vapor pressure the epoxy boiled, you wouldn't want to boil the water out of the concrete.

[SwePatrick]

I vibrated it for about 2-3minutes.
I using concrete in buildings you need to vibrate one cubic meter roughly 15minutes depending on what concrete and what vibrator.
The bigger the 'rocks' in the concrete the harder to vibrate it.
If you did a good job vibrating the concrete you should have lost about 99% of the trapped air inside, it´s actually that effective

And a minor airpocket isn´t to spend much time to think about, it will just be compensated for when balancing.
By that i mean, small trapped airbubbles like 1-2mm big, nothing to care about.

In my case, i didn´t use the concrete as an 'inertiaadder', that was just a bonus.
I wanted to make the roller 'dead' and not make or transfer vibrations.
But if you want to make more inertia with filament you can use concrete and blend it with shotblasting 'steel sand', but here´s a bigger risk to get it more uneven filled.
But in the end, it still add very little as the closer to centrum of roller the less inertia it adds.


Rgds

[Peiter]

Hi swePatrick,

If you are interested in truly calculating the exact stress instead of "gut feeling", in the following link you can find most of the necessary equations.
http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tabl...cylinders.html

I would first calculate the tangential stress of your concrete "disc" and then combine this stress with the results from the "hollow steel disc".
Next, compare it to the material properties of your used material and add quite some "worst case" safety due to possible stress peaks / fatique problems at the milled grooves.

I'll happily provide you with feedback if you decide to make these calculations

[Frits Overmars]

if you want to make more inertia with filament you can use concrete and blend it with shotblasting 'steel sand'

If you give advice like that, you should also tell what the safe maximum rpm is and how much surrounding steel is required to keep everything together.
Patrick, I don't want to continue the argument, but whilst you may know what you're doing, others may not.
That alone is the reason I tried to discourage the use of non-structural materials as inertia-enhancers. Apparently I failed.

[SwePatrick]

I do live in some sort of way that i hope that someone that starts a project like this will give it some thought, cause in the middle of building, you will have to.

Let´s just say like this: you overdramatisizes it.
An fairly ordinary function of jealous internetpeople sadly enough.
And i couldn´t care less, I´m no selftitled internetguru of buidling dynos.
You can choose going my way, you can also choose to not, not my problem.

Bye bye.

[Sketchy_Racer]

.....
Let´s just say like this: you overdramatisizes it.
......

No, Frits does not "over dramatize" the matter at all. You have built a potential lethal weapon regardless of your friends "calcs". It is entirely irresponsible for you to discredit anyone's input in regards to safety.

[Niels Abildgaard]

If concrete expands a little during solidification no calcultion is worth a life or two.The steel will be prestressed an unknown amount and concrete is not very good in tension.
In my case I would spin it with an AC motor and VFD to something like1.6 times maximum expected rpm before each run and keep children,dogs and poultry out of combat zone.