ESE's works engine tuner

[husaberg]

Not sure if yamaha did it in their 2T's first but they certainly use it in their 4T's - makes their inline fours harder to work on than they need be.

Not sure what came first but the RD200/125 and earlier tiddler twins have the saddles.
They actually have the center lab seal arround the bearings as well.
Plus the upper part also forms the sides of the transfers.

[TZ350]

Page 1660 ........

Ryger.....

https://www.google.be/url?sa=t&sourc...JoAk0M2iu5-Mdg

Race one Tepuke , Fatboy pulls the plug. https://youtu.be/NFRyZpzsyY8

race 2 , regans chain comes off but alex has the ride of his life and takes his first north island win. https://youtu.be/dBDWdq9k6Nc

Links to Katinas Ryger like engine build. You will have to follow the links back to see all of the the pictures.

This post of Katinas has some dimensional information.

Hi,When I started drawings (3 months ago) I begin to understand complexity that Ryger overcome (ex. assembling piston to conrod with that plate). Complete structure depends on how high can lift cylinder.

Lots of detail on this post too.

Hi, Maybe, limited information about Harry Ryger engine, forced to act our brain more intensively, it is good in any case.

"Things that left unsaid" about "rygerised" Ns 250
1. Stroke is original 50.6 mm ( no room in 2 cylinder Ns 250 crankcase for 54.5 mm stroke, ...........

Hi, Started it yesterday and revs like like crazy chainsaw, I have never heard such a sound from this old engine.

Do you have a video of it running? May we see it?

Hi, I planned to make new header for pipe (shorter, straighter) before second tests , but Flettner forced me rolling the motorcycle on ice with slicks for videos tests ( cold winter -15C, so If I get sick, I hope Flettner will send me New Zealand honey ). But failed to attach this video, file is to large, although I select very low resolution

Rygerised https://youtu.be/OnLMIMiXoR8

This, pipe header on video, from Ns 400 3 cylinder, is too long and last time I rode ns 400 two years ago, max power around 10000 rpm. Carburetor and ignition not tested anywhere, so this video only to hear whether it works or not.
Before the test, I was thinking that the engine will fail after 10s, but not. So now, I want only ride and feel what it is (with proper header) , before engine fail.

Ryger should put that link on their website, so that potential customers can hear what a Ryger engine sounds like

katinas how does the lower rod and crank bearings get lube if theres no hole under the 20mm plate? maybe i'm missing something

Hi, Before assembly pour oil in crankcase ( in both working and free crank spaces ) . This engine is 2 cylinder, but only for tests made special 1 cylinder crank with long axis trough second cylinder crank space for ignition. So it is 3 main bearings and center bearing without seal. Working cylinder generate pressure and air with oil flowing through this center bearing to free space of 2 cylinder. But this is only for tests and of course for proper work need to do much like 4 stroke with small reed for depression with hoses for air and oil.

katinas,do you know what the engines bottom end comp ratio is?

Hi, Volume under the piston at TDC and palate, with reed block in place, around - 310 cc. Suction volume -71,6 cc., Volume under the piston at BDC and plate- 238.4cc Bottom compression around - 1.3 Crankcase not measured

I don't know if anyone follows the Macad Ryger FB page but this popped-up a few days ago:


It's a 50cc engine with a Ryger spacer so I guess they've found a way to go even smaller. Of course, there's no info on it's construction but I see fins on the spacer for additional air cooling maybe? I had thought the Ryger was destined to be smoke and mirrors until seeing your work, katinas. Keep it up!

Ryger Question:

The displacement in the chamber below the piston is roughly half the cylinder displacement - thus the pumped volume is about 70cc in a 125cc engine. So relying on pumping only at theoretical best we can only get a delivery ratio of 50% (Aprillia RSA125 ~ 140%) so where does the rest of the charge come from?

You would need some super pipe to create this sort of suction to make up the difference and that is just to match the RSA125, but the Ryger is supposed to be relatively insensitive to pipe design so not this?

The inertia of the gas flowing through the ports can help a small amount but nowhere near this difference.

So there is NO reason why it should give more than about 30HP I can think of.....

Frits has ridden a Ryger powered Go Kart and Katinas has made a great looking come working Ryger like engine, page 1662 has some discussion about Rygers claims for their engine. It will be great to hear Katinas impressions of his Ryger when he gets to ride it.

As Katinas wrote earlier, nor his engine, nor the Ryger has auxiliary exhaust ports because those would require a wider piston skirt, that would in turn hamper the flow into the transfers. Since I read it here, I can react without endangering my NDA (thank you Katinas). And what follows now, is purely my own guesswork since I never received any relevant information from Ryger.
From the Ryger homologation papers we can see that the exhaust timing is lower than the Aprilia RSA timing, so the Ryger's blowdown angle.area is tiny compared to the RSA's. And when taking the initially quoted maximum torque rpm of 17500 into account, the Ryger's blowdown time.area was almost non-existent. It nevertheless did not stop it from producing over 70 hp.

And before anybody says that they've never seen any proof of this amount of power in the form of a real dyno graph, let me say that neither have I, but I was lucky enough to get a seat-of-the-pants impression of the original Ryger prototype before problems with the production engines brought the operation to a halt, and my pants are not that easily fooled, having ridden motorcycles with several hundred hp.
By the way, what made me decide to step out of the project, was the lack of frankness. I would have loved to take part in the development of that engine, but it turned out that I was only recruited to generate publicity. I'm sure I could have prevented some of those technical problems if only there had been an exchange of thoughts, but all I ever got were promises. It's a pity....

OK, back to my theory. Seeing that the in-cylinder pressure of the RSA is about 12 bar at exhaust opening, and given that the Ryger is claimed to produce about 20 hp more than the RSA, and given that the Ryger's blowdown time.area is so much smaller, there must be a huge amount of spent gases that enter the Ryger's transfer ducts, raising the pressure in the sub-piston volume and the density of the mixture (well observed, Philou). The higher pressure may lead to a much faster transfer flow, with more mixture inertia. This inertia then ought to pull more fresh mixture through the reed inlet valve.
I only wonder how effective this inertia can function, as the Ryger's transfer ducts are very short and anything but flow-encouraging.

One thing about Ryger engine, which might have been expected, and it has proved after first static test, it is very low mechanical noise. Very lovely..........

That was also my second impression after the staggering acceleration: the beautiful sound. When you would expect a regular 125 cc engine to reach the end of its power band, the Ryger started to sing; that's the best I can describe it. This lovely sound, in combination with the large amount of hot exhaust gas that enters the transfer ducts and is subsequently recycled into the cylinder, made me think in the direction of Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition with its very fast, short combustion phase; maybe ten times as fast as regular spark-ignited combustion. HCCI would also account for low fuel consumption, comparatively clean exhaust gases, and the need for only a small cooler, although I could not verify these claims.

Chairs, the latest ones i see are are digital now though, so they will have a curve i hope.
They are still a neat little set up, and cheap as chips.
Attachment 328749Attachment 328750
Price:$299.00 + $4.49 shipping
https://www.amazon.com/DIGITAL-IGNIT.../dp/B00CFL5QLU

http://www.ktm-parts.com/mm5/graphic...XS12050039.pdf

For an idea just how big they are for those unfamilar with the little KTM's
Attachment 328751

[wobbly]

So - still waiting Mr Bucketracer ( wanker ) ( troll ) to tell us what Yamaha new ( knew ) that we ( the 2T dumbarses - who can spell ) still don't.

[41juergen]

Like the TZ engines have...

[katinas]

nice work.... finally we hear the engine sound... would you say the rpm level gained is purely down to the lower piston friction ? and nothing to do with sealing the crankcase from the cylinder?

Hi,

I know nothing about level, just chainsaw sound. Only testing on road will reveal the truth. Once, I asked my friend (biophysicist) how much idea proved in practice, his answer was about 15 per cent and at the end told that our brain is a rough tool.

Seal is at higher part of small cylinder, 4.5 mm lower than edge. Had to be 2 parts, Torlon® 4301 PAI (http://www.boedeker.com/torlon-4301.htm) and
grey PTFE, but should be an other solution. Still waiting Torlon so made one peace PTFE ( 37.8x42.6x2.4 mm). Its soft, so install it without cut, just like rubber O ring, torlon hard, to be cut. It is very critical part of Ryger conception, and I think that fuel always percolate into the crankcase oil (Bob van der Zijden, direct, high pressure EFI, maybe eliminate this to minimum ) . But for short racing time its good.
The more think about Ryger engine, the more it seems that reliability depends on "smaller" piston size. Jan note, somewhere in forum, "is very high load on very small surface" like always is accurate. Bigger "small" piston made engine more reliable ( from 41 mm and bigger, but that means bigger main piston, higher stroke ,higher engine capacity.)
With small "small" piston (from Ryger homologated drawings 36mm. 1 year old info. ) they needed very special aluminium coating, maybe nicasil not withstands load. So, maybe new Ryger engine had very special materials and tolerance like watch, and it requires a lot lot of time.

Found this, it is old but... http://www.ceramicindustry.com/artic...s-for-aluminum

[katinas]

Like the TZ engines have...

Hi

In 2001 the most surprised me, that pistons on factory 500 is without cut, maybe for better cooling from stream or something

[steamroller]

So - still waiting Mr Bucketracer ( wanker ) ( troll ) to tell us what Yamaha new ( knew ) that we ( the 2T dumbarses - who can spell ) still don't.

How is mr Charlotte top supper bike rider go on the 400 that you just built for him. Rsuults not great what is going on?

[katinas]

So - still waiting Mr Bucketracer ( wanker ) ( troll ) to tell us what Yamaha new ( knew ) that we ( the 2T dumbarses - who can spell ) still don't.

Hi

I am sorry that this picture spread anger, yes his post was offensive ( sometimes we made mistakes), but I just remember that photo, because of our discussion about holed pistons . I just wonder that factory piston on intake side are without cut.

Thanks for your very insight and interesting posts.

[mr bucketracer]

Hi

I am sorry that this picture spread anger, yes his post was offensive ( sometimes we made mistakes), but I just remember that photo, because of our discussion about holed pistons . I just wonder that factory piston on intake side are without cut.

Thanks for your very insight and interesting posts.

I worded wrong .went to change but ya quoted to qick .was going to change to we all could learn something from this .hay they won world titles

[steamroller]

I worded wrong .went to change but ya quoted to qick .was going to change to we all could learn something from this .hay they won world titles

And still given away t shorts

[Carel H]

I see Yamaha stole my 1983 tilted split crankcase!

[katinas]

I worded wrong .went to change but ya quoted to qick .was going to change to we all could learn something from this .hay they won world titles

Hi
Do not worry, we are all sensitive people, photos just specialy for you, for free.

[katinas]

Maybe, the best "Ryger ready" cylinder for motorcycle on market, is from aprilia rs 125, but it is 54mm, so if bored to 58mm It would be easier made "small" piston 38 or 39mm.

But I do not know what is more suitable for Ryger engine: exhaust with satellites or without, because main piston sides lower edges performs timing function (maybe for Ryger it is new four timing along with intake, transfer and exhaust ) on transfer windows for filling. With ex. satellites piston ex. side skirt must be wider. and masked some parts of trans. windows when piston moving up. With one ex. window and narrower piston skirt, all transfers fully opened and is mo powerful suction. But maybe when engine is on pipe it is no mater, pipe made all suctions.

[Frits Overmars]

I am sorry that this picture spread anger

Don't worry about it Katinas. That picture you posted was completely harmless and you are not responsible for other people's reactions.
I must add that both Jan and myself are fascinated by your posts. Keep up the good work!

[d2t]

Bigger "small" piston made engine more reliable ( from 41 mm and bigger, but that means bigger main piston, higher stroke ,higher engine capacity.)
With small "small" piston (from Ryger homologated drawings 36mm. 1 year old info. ) they needed very special aluminium coating, maybe nicasil not withstands load. So, maybe new Ryger engine had very special materials and tolerance like watch, and it requires a lot lot of time.
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I don't know if anyone follows the Macad Ryger FB page but this popped-up a few days ago:


It's a 50cc engine with a Ryger spacer so I guess they've found a way to go even smaller. Of course, there's no info on it's construction but I see fins on the spacer for additional air cooling maybe?

I had thought the Ryger was destined to be smoke and mirrors until seeing your work, katinas. Keep it up!