ESE's works engine tuner

[Yow Ling]

500 gets you the hardware , software, and ongoing support.
unless you can write and debug the program in less than 20 hrs total its cheaper to just buy it
download the demo software and see if it isnt good value.
TZ350 had heaps of problems getting a clean ignition signal, this comes with one !
Some people still build their own PCs , most people take the buy an appliance approach, which I think is the way to go here.

[F5 Dave]

One has to say, unless you have unlimited time & are idle rich, - which would you rather be building & developing? 1. dynos or 2. motorcycles, bearing in mind that neither is likely to bring any money in.

Any project is another project that will get pushed to the side.

[TZ350]

All that is really needed is an rpm readout for the engine and one for the barrel. Just a hall effect sensor or even a light gate on the sensor would work just fine.

Then all is needed is a program to read it and output the data. This could be easily achieved in a C# windows form application. It would need a serial input to take samples of the rpm. And the time can be gotten from a timer in the program.

Then the physics is pretty straightforward:

Inertia could be closely modeled by a hollow cylinder, but it would not be perfect. It will do for an explanation.

Inertia= mass x radius^2
Torque = (Final angular velocity-Initial angular velocity) x Inertia
Power(in watts) = Torque x angular velocity

That is all very easy stuff for a computer to do.
Then a little bit of graphics to make a graph.
And export the data on a CSV (text File) for further use on excel or another graphing program.

We have experimented with a Vallerman Kit from JayCar, it can read several digital and analogue inputs and send them to a computer via a USB port.

We could read the drum rpm digitaly, and/or analogue torque arm load via a load cell but we have not managed a good engine rpm signal yet.

One of the team ESE guys wrote a simple Windows based C+ program that pretty much worked as you described.

All good ideas, that you suggest, should be possible and would be what I would like to put together if we have the time……..but........

[TZ350]

…… which would you rather be building & developing? 1. dynos or 2. motorcycles,…..Any project is another project that will get pushed to the side.

Engines are my pick….

Making new chassis is a chore but has to be done…….

Now that we know the value of a dyno we have to build one if we can as we can’t afford a lot of time on a commercial one.

I am not the only one working on the teams bikes, but probably the most prolific at posting about the projects.......

To get there, we need to run the essential work in parallel…..

[Henk]

Could you get a reliable RPM signal by pillaging the pickup off a timing light? I'm sure you are going to tell me they only trigger on the odd spark and that you've tried it but it's the only obvious idea that springs to mind.

[SS90]

Graham Harris built a Dyno in Christchurch (still in use, and on a trailer) running c: it works well.

You just need a cheap inductive pick up to get your engine speed to roller speed for your initial run ( I have seen them in NZ, for peanuts) this is called a "ratio run", simply holding the bike in the same gear you will do the run in...... say 3rd, at say, 5,000 rpm, (so the engine is really smooth, and holding a constant rpm) then you can easily calculate your engine speed (for that gear) compared to your roller speed, expressed as a ratio.


In set up mode, the roller speed is displayed.

Simply divide engine speed by roller speed.

When you input the ratio, the program then knows that at x roller rpm, the engine is y rpm, and an inductive pick up is not needed anymore.


Graphing out power vs rpm is as simply as the push of the button. A bit more programming, and you can easily graph road speed vs power, though I only see that as useful for CVT transmissions really, RPM and Torque vs power is the real info you need.


Even with expensive inertia dyno's, the most common problem is the pickup for the RPM giving problems, but I am certain that once they have the ratio, and you are doing a run, the pick up is no longer used, and they simply rely on the roller speed to calculate the RPM.

The P4 I use is windows based, but calculates the ratio automatically, you simply set where you want to start measuring, connect the inductive pickup, hold the engine 300rpm below the selected start rpm (constant throttle is important) in the gear you will do the run, it calculates the ratio automatically, saves it, and the green light is flashed.

After the first run, you can simply remove the pick up, and, if you always use the same gear, you can do as many runs as you want.

If you stay in the same gear, the engine RPM and the roller rpm are always a direct relation.

I think you will find that most inertia dyno's only use the inductive pick up data for calculating the roller/engine speed ratio, then, after recording it, no longer use the pick up data during the run, as there is no need at all, unless you are, like I say using a CVT, or, an "all gear run", where there is no consistant ratio, due to the bike being run through all the gears to graph an "all gear run" (see attachment, in this case 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear, and the rpm is represented by the dotted red and white lines, road speed at the bottom) This is the only kind of dyno run that a constant engine RPM input is required.

I find runs using this method always read a little bit higher peak actually.

I would suggest if you wanted to write a program, just allow for a manual ratio input, it only takes a minute or two to get the ratio for each bike, and you can do as many runs as you like on the same bike with out needing to have a constant rpm pick up, and graphing against engine rpm is simple.

[speedpro]

Dynotech's dyno in Wellington used a pickup hung on the low tension side of the ignition coil

[Bert]

what about something like this:
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView...t&form=KEYWORD
connected a slotted cutout plate to your magneto and bob your uncle (sort of).
or back to Henks' idea regarding timing light pickup; given that you might loose 1 in 5/10 pulses, is it a real concern? as you will end up averaging the pulse frequency anyway (being the it is Revs Per Minute).
being a bit clever, you could do some maths during the information processing to remove upper and lower quartile frequencies (pulse periods) of a 5sec averaging period (or something like that would deal with the missed pulses).

Anyway here's a cool link to get your mouth watering (looks like a cool solution):
http://wotid.com/dyno/content/view/14/39/

[TZ350]

.

Jante Patterns and what they mean for the transfer streams and scavenging have been talked about before on this thread.

Bucketracer and Thomas are taking a closer look at them to see if they can measure the air pressures and draw the Jante pattern with a view to improving the flow of the scavenging streams.

Pages from chapter nine of "The High-Performance Two-Stroke Engine"

First published 2005 by Dr John C. Dixon. Senior Lecturer in engineering Mechanics. The Open University, Great Britain.

To read or print a page, open the link in a new window.

[TZ350]

Jante Patterns have been talked about before on this thread, and now Team ESE are taking a closer look at them.

Symmetry and disposition of the transfer flow patterns is important.

Although effective, we found water messy for checking this and are trying again with air..........

We have measured a significant difference in pressure between opposite sides (transfer ports) and this can also be seen in the air bubbles in the water.

Thomas and Bucket plan on experimenting with measuring the air pressure and drawing the Jante patterns and see if the pattern can be improved by working on the ports.

[SS90]

All very interesting.

It may be worth noting that Jente and Schnürle worked together in Dresden from 1933 to 1945 (which is odd, as Jente was Jewish..... and that had previously stopped him from being a professor so it would suggest he was something pretty special), and then again right up to Schnürle's death in the mid 50's.

Adolf (haha) Schnürle was Jente's boss actually, and pretty much all the patents around this can be attributed to Jente and his Scavenge pattern work.

Schnürle's initial work was subject to patent's from (I think) 1924 till 1960 (that may be wrong), but after the war, like so many other patents, they where surrendered to the Allies for reparation, which saw the end of cross flow 2 strokes for most of the world.

Jente and Schnürle both wrote books specifically on this subject (rather than just SAE papers), though I am unaware of any of them in English, they where all written in the 50's, so it doesn't really get into the stuff we work with in this day, but the basics are there.

The term "Jente pattern" is simply invented by the writer of the article Teezee posted, Schnürle and Jente themselves used the phrase "Sprülungbild", which translates as "flushing pattern", but now the term "scavenge pattern" has found it's way into the language, but "Sprülung" is more common.


"Jente pattern" is a term invented by the writer.

Oh, history and 2 strokes in the same post!

[F5 Dave]

Interesting. History is writen by the victor & all that, - or at least the latest surviving version.

For the interested, Kaaden has just bitten my watch & clawed my fleece sleeve, but is expected to curl up on the comfy chair if there are no skinks to be found.

[Buckets4Me]

For the interested, Kaaden has just bitten my watch & clawed my fleece sleeve, but is expected to curl up on the comfy chair if there are no skinks to be found.

so whats the skink up to in this cold weather ?. May just have to send in the UN to get the (Dimonds back) I mean keep the peace

[TZ350]

The new chamber.

Mota suggests this chamber will work better with the cylinder we ported earlier than the Honda RS chamber I have been using.

New Chamber
Piston to Ex Flange 55mm, diameter at ex flange 36mm
Cone, One,..36mmDia, 285mmLong , 50mmDia.
Cone, Two,.50mmDia, 172mmLong , 90mmDia.
Cone, Three,90mmDia,108mmLong , 115mmDia.
Cone, Four,115mmDia, 70mmLong , 115mmDia.
Cone, Five,115mmDia, 90mmLong , 85mmDia.
Cone, Six,…85mmDia, 80mmLong , 23mmDia.

Cylinder
Ex opens 86.5 degrees ATDC
Transfers open 114.5 ATDC

Inlet opens 145 BTDC and closes 75 degrees ATDC

All the cone positions were marked on a piece of alloy welding wire, then the wire was bent to a shape that fits the bike.

Then the cone development function of Mota was used to generate the shapes for the bends and print them out. The shapes were taped together to see how well the chamber fits.

Later the paper templates will be cut apart and glued onto steel sheet so the chamber components can be cut out and welded together.

The bends in the header section are like that so the body of the chamber is well forward and fits under the motor as there is a clearance problem around the rear suspension on the FZR for a more conventional sweeping header that places the mid section of the chamber further back.

[F5 Dave]

so whats the skink up to in this cold weather ?. .

Well hiding it appears. The comfy chair wins out.