ESE's works engine tuner

[DoldGuy]

Wobbly - interesting, but it leaves me asking for more - how do you define or measure "curtain area length" ?

thanks

Emess,

This might help...

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...gMod2T-Q-amp-A

Just adds more to what I Don't know

[Frits Overmars]

Wobbly - interesting, but it leaves me asking for more - how do you define or measure "curtain area length" ?

Here you go Emess. D is the diameter with which the bellmouth would touch a flat sheet pushed against it.

[emess]

Emess,

This might help...

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...gMod2T-Q-amp-A

Just adds more to what I Don't know

Thanks for that - theres a whole load of useful stuff on that page

Mick

[emess]

Here you go Emess. D is the diameter with which the bellmouth would touch a flat sheet pushed against it.

Thanks Frits, even I can understand it presented like that
Mick

[husaberg]

Thanks! He'll prove useful when time comes to overthrow the government!

Started training already.

[Bert]

Attachment 329228

This is my exhaust pressure takeoff for the MAP sensor. It is a one way valve with a small ceramic ball with only 0.010" movement, hopefully it wont break up being hammer'd around at 200Hz. The blue hose will have positive pressure in it and a small bleed hole melted into it with a hot pin for a pressure bleed down. Hopefully this will give the 2 bar MAP sensor something worthwhile to work with, that is hopefully a smooth positive pressure that reliably reflects changes in the mass air flow through the motor.

Nath88, thanks for the ideas, hopefully I can make them work for me.

This is a really neat idea, looking forward to seeing the results of this.
<1/8" copper gas tube might survive a little longer and a little pressure release valve.

[TZ350]

<1/8" copper gas tube might survive a little longer and a little pressure release valve.

Yes, I am none to sure about the suitability of the blue silicon hose myself. I do have some 8mm Teflon hose ($60/meter) that might be worth a try too.

[TZ350]

Page 1680 ......

Building a F4 water cooled two stroke Bucket racing engine.

Some more detail pictures.

Suzuki GP100 crank parts and cases are the same as the 125 and totally interchangeable, same for the TS100/125 and TF100/125.

The original Suzuki GP100 50.5mm stroke crank with its 19mm B/E pin was de-stroked to 48mm by using a RD400 rod with its 22mm B/E pin and offsetting the B/E hole 1.25mm.

Suzuki GP100 crank wheels earmarked for modification so the GP100 can use a reclaimed NSR cylinder.

A:- NSR and KE to have 22mm big end pins and will be using the RD400 2T2 rod. The overall outside crank width will be the standard 50mm.
B:- KE and NSR B/E pin is to move in 1.25mm for a 48mm stroke.
C:- KE thrust face -0.6mm, and NSR crank thrust face -0.25mm and the pocket around the thrust face opened up to accommodate the RD rod and thrust washers. This is important.
D:- Alloy plug all balance holes.
E:- KE, NSR -2mm for rod beam side clearance.
F:- The cranks for the NSR cylinders to have Mallory slugs fitted opposite the big end pin and as close to the rim as practicable, the KE already has lead slugs, these could be changed for Mallory.

The original stroke of the Kawasaki KE and Suzuki GP/TS/TF is 50.5mm and needs to be changed to a 48mm stroke for the 54mm NSR (or Aprilia 125) cylinder.



Finished Suzuki GP100 110cc crank.



To marry the NSR cylinder to the GP cases the original stud holes in the GP cases were plugged with threaded aluminium rod glued and screwed into the original stud holes. And the stud holes relocated to suit the NSR cylinder. The forth GP stud hole is used to hold the spacer plate down while the fourth stud for the NSR cylinder is located in the spacer plate itself.



The cylinder needs to be positioned by the spacer at a height that has the exhaust port opening at 80 deg ATDC (power valve fully up), transfers will then be 115 ATDC, our spacer plate was 15mm thick and we cut our rotary valve to open 145 BTDC and close 85 ATDC.



I have used a VHM head but a standard head could be easily modified to spigot in too.

The top of the cylinder was turned down 2mm and the head was spigot'd 2mm into the cylinder, for a total adjustment of 4mm. When you turn the top of a plated cylinder it pays to grind a chamfer around the top of the bore so the turning tool does not pick up and chip the plating.



There are two areas in the Suzuki GP crankcase just below the cylinder that need to be relieved for rod clearance.

A 110cc Suzuki GP100 fitted with a standard NSR cylinder, Honda RS125 pipe and 24mm carb makes about 26-27hp on our Dynojet.

[Nath88]

I am unable to choose where in the crank rotation I take the pressure sample. But Ecotrons allows me to choose several TPS/RPM break points for defining where the VE table swaps to the Alpha-N table. It does not have to be a straight line. It could be steps or even a rudimentary curve. so I will be able to target the problem areas in my series of dyno graphs.

The dyno graphs, all Alpha-N map, start at 20% TPS (green line) and go up in 10% steps 20 - 30 - 40 etc. Not much difference in power curves between 80 - 90 - 100% TPS.

All the EFI issues seem to be below 20 - 25% maybe that is where the pipe wave collapses.

I can use EngMod's predicted series of delivery ratios as a guide for the VE table.

This is my exhaust pressure takeoff for the MAP sensor. It is a one way valve with a small ceramic ball with only 0.010" movement, hopefully it wont break up being hammer'd around at 200Hz. The blue hose will have positive pressure in it and a small bleed hole melted into it with a hot pin for a pressure bleed down. Hopefully this will give the 2 bar MAP sensor something worthwhile to work with, that is hopefully a smooth positive pressure that reliably reflects changes in the mass air flow through the motor.

I found the same with mine, when tuned right, 20% throttle was about as little as the engine would take to maintain the pipe wave, keeping it firing every cycle. Less than that it would start to four stroke. It was interesting when tuning that area of the table, the engine would run clean at 20% throttle 7500rpm, would never do that with the carb.

Do you know when the Ecotrons samples the sensors? If it's tied to the injection timing or the crank trigger you might be able to tweak those to get it where it needs to be.
The mechanical bleed should work, would just need to bleed off within a few cycles to be effective. Enough for a proof of concept anyway.

Can you multiply the speed density table by the alpha-n table?
Can you switch tables based on an input? You could make an external circuit that switches when the exhaust pressure goes above some threshold value, like a fast pressure switch. Then have a table for off the pipe, and a table for on the pipe.

I don't think switching from speed density to alpha-n will be very helpful, will need to be a combination of them both.

[TZ350]

Can you multiply the speed density table by the alpha-n table? Can you switch tables based on an input?

It looks like Ecotrons uses the VE and Alpha-N tables completely independently.

Ecotrons tuning guide.

VE 12 RPM rows vis 16 MAP column's.

Alpha-N 16 TPS rows vis 12 RPM column's.

8 RPM cells with 8 corresponding TPS cells.

This map is setup as an eight step curve for choosing between VE or Alpha-N. At any RPM below a chosen TPS it is VE, above its Alpha-N.

It's pretty exciting, hopefully I will have the bike back together for a bit of a trial run by the week end. I don't expect too much straight away but it will be very interesting to see what the recorded MAP data from the exhaust port looks like.

[lucf]

The Ryger in action 12th of March at Eefde.
A few laps from Danny Aumiller with his standard Ryger..poor chassis setup but very nice laptimes !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJbxxdzhESA

[oktrg500]

At http://rygerengine.com they posted a dyno chart February 22nd 2017. Apparently, the engine will come in two flavors. Standard and Special. Strange - max hp is nowhere near the 17.000rpm's mentioned before. I wonder what the service intervals is for the engine parts. Wouldn't mind putting one of these into my 125 Aprilia streetbike

[FastFred]

At way over 30 hp at 10,000 rpm they can claim Free Blowies for Life from Wobbly ....

[wobbly]

Be happy to oblige if it met the original bucket rules the offer applied to.

[TZ350]

Be happy to oblige if it met the original bucket rules the offer applied to.

..... Now that he brought it up, looks like FastFred will have to do it then.