ESE's works engine tuner

[TZ350]

The red text was left out of the published version where we were only talking about different gasolines. The additional tests with methanol and nitromethane were to address whether we needed to use Digitron or similar tests to prevent fuel cheating. These tests prove that fuel alone isn't the answer for more power. You would need to change the combustion chamber volume for higher compression, and the tuned pipe for lower exhaust temperature. In addition, variable ignition timing would help.

Lohring Miller

Attachment 329506

Very interesting.

[TZ350]

And "chemical supercharging" just sounds cool!

I once tried a pumper carb and hydrogen peroxide for oxygen and cooling from the evaporating water. All I got was lots of gas bubbles choking the pumper and alloy corrosion.
Maybe squirting it in with a windscreen washer pump may have worked better .....

http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/peroxide.aspx

[katinas]

Hi

So, after very busy preparation day ( all that road legal stuff is so boring: head lamps, turns, mirrors, insurance ), but in the end ride it (around 25 km.).

And what a funny things: different engine, but the same carb, pipe, ignition tuning routine stories started again.

1. 0-3100 rpm. - easy ride 1st-2nd gear normal sound from reed cage - aaaaaaaaaaaa

2. 3100-5800 rpm. - no power at all noisy sound from reed cage - b-a-a-a-a-a-a-a or r-a-a-a-a--a-a

3. 5800-8500 rpm. - engine starts to come to life, normal sound again

4. And from 9000 blow begins, but suddenly at the most interesting moment, when real power come in , after 10100 rpm. like switch off ( likely too small main jet- Keihin NSR 250 tb 32mm. main jet 150, never tried this carb before, so for me its new and it takes time for friendship. Test with airbox, with intake tube dia.-31mm. length- 55mm. without foam filter.)

5. Then remove airbox, put on foam filter and try to ride again, but this time engine switch off around 7000 rpm.

6. Then it became dark and rolled back in time for MotoGP FP3.

So, next week I'll try to find something and maybe Your tips and insight will help.

[katinas]

Nah; you can't cast decent disc recesses like that anyway; they'll always need some final processing.
I suppose the simplest approach would be to cast those cases 'full' and then dip in a cutter blade.
Attachment 329483 Attachment 329482

Russian outboard engine Vihr 30 (Whirlpool 30), modified copy of Germany 1957 Konig (http://quincylooperracing.us/gpage8.html). Two cylinders, 488 cc, bore x stroke 72mm x 60mm.
Std. engine max power 30hp - 5000rpm. They made it until 2000 or so. Crankcase midsection sand cast. Highly tuned versions used in boat racing on methanol -75-80 hp.

Found my motorcycle old photos with this tuned engine .

[TZ350]

So, after very busy preparation day ( all that road legal stuff is so boring: head lamps, turns, mirrors, insurance ), but in the end ride it (around 25 km.).

Hi Katinas ...... ..... congratulations on having been able to ride your Ryger for some distance on its first outing.

My hats of to you for a very good engineering effort. .....

[SwePatrick]

Hi

So, after very busy preparation day ( all that road legal stuff is so boring: head lamps, turns, mirrors, insurance ), but in the end ride it (around 25 km.).

And what a funny things: different engine, but the same carb, pipe, ignition tuning routine stories started again.

1. 0-3100 rpm. - easy ride 1st-2nd gear normal sound from reed cage - aaaaaaaaaaaa

2. 3100-5800 rpm. - no power at all noisy sound from reed cage - b-a-a-a-a-a-a-a or r-a-a-a-a--a-a

3. 5800-8500 rpm. - engine starts to come to life, normal sound again

4. And from 9000 blow begins, but suddenly at the most interesting moment, when real power come in , after 10100 rpm. like switch off ( likely too small main jet- Keihin NSR 250 tb 32mm. main jet 150, never tried this carb before, so for me its new and it takes time for friendship. Test with airbox, with intake tube dia.-31mm. length- 55mm. without foam filter.)

5. Then remove airbox, put on foam filter and try to ride again, but this time engine switch off around 7000 rpm.

6. Then it became dark and rolled back in time for MotoGP FP3.

So, next week I'll try to find something and maybe Your tips and insight will help.

Try stiffer reedpetals.
You got higher pressureratios in 'crankhouse' now, and you might need to tune those.

Rgds.

[TZ350]

This is my exhaust pressure takeoff for the MAP sensor. It is a one way valve with a small ceramic ball with only 0.010" movement, hopefully it wont break up being hammer'd around at 200Hz. The blue hose will have positive pressure in it and a small bleed hole melted into it with a hot pin for a pressure bleed down. Hopefully this will give the 2 bar MAP sensor something worthwhile to work with, that is hopefully a smooth positive pressure that reliably reflects changes in the mass air flow through the motor.

Nath88, thanks for the ideas, hopefully I can make them work for me.

Preliminary try at using the pressure and MAP sensor at the exhaust port to detect a drop in pressure when the pipe wave action collapses during over run.



TPS bottom line.
MAP pressure orange middle line.
RPM top green line.

Interesting, MAP pressure drops below ambient when accelerating ( 30% TPS ) and increases to greater than ambient on overrun. Not what was expected at all, I was expecting it to show high pressure during acceleration and a drop on overrun not increase????

Not sure what is happening, know more when I have adjusted the Alpha-N map and found the right size secondary injector so I can pull full load.

[ken seeber]

Attachment 329482[/QUOTE]

Frits, I have a question on the above pic. Is the crankcase lower half also machined for the disc valve as well? Otherwise the valve could flop about cos it'd be unsupported.

Katinas, really good effort. Watch you don't get booked for speeding.

[katinas]

Try stiffer reedpetals.
You got higher pressureratios in 'crankhouse' now, and you might need to tune those.

Rgds.

Thank you, add this to trying list.
Now i want to check cylinder head for invisible cracking, because this head skimmed very often from 2000 and aprox. 5mm thinner than original. This engine "switch off" very familiar to cylinder - head leakage from previous practice with air and water cooling engines. And spark plug is very strange, like washed with no signs of work. Have a lot of thicker cylinder heads, so not a problem, just need to modified for plain piston.

Add photo of two modified reed cage. First ride with side windows cage.

[JanBros]

Hi

So, after very busy preparation day ( all that road legal stuff is so boring: head lamps, turns, mirrors, insurance ), but in the end ride it (around 25 km.).

And what a funny things: different engine, but the same carb, pipe, ignition tuning routine stories started again.

1. 0-3100 rpm. - easy ride 1st-2nd gear normal sound from reed cage - aaaaaaaaaaaa

2. 3100-5800 rpm. - no power at all noisy sound from reed cage - b-a-a-a-a-a-a-a or r-a-a-a-a--a-a

3. 5800-8500 rpm. - engine starts to come to life, normal sound again

4. And from 9000 blow begins, but suddenly at the most interesting moment, when real power come in , after 10100 rpm. like switch off ( likely too small main jet- Keihin NSR 250 tb 32mm. main jet 150, never tried this carb before, so for me its new and it takes time for friendship. Test with airbox, with intake tube dia.-31mm. length- 55mm. without foam filter.)

5. Then remove airbox, put on foam filter and try to ride again, but this time engine switch off around 7000 rpm.

6. Then it became dark and rolled back in time for MotoGP FP3.

So, next week I'll try to find something and maybe Your tips and insight will help.

now all we need is a video showing your bike riding with others, and a claim of huge power and we can conclude you are already level with the real Ryger

[Frits Overmars]

.... Husabergs Cyclemaster picture, showing the engine's most interesting part: the governor. It was a spring-loaded vane that gradually closed the inlet opening in the disc as the revs went up. Removing the vane gave the little engine a second wind.

Might there be some merit in something similar, that adjusts the inlet timing depending on rpm?

Yes, there might be. And it has been done, half a century ago.


But instead of varying the disc angle on the fly it is simpler and more effective to vary the width of the inlet opening in the disc cover, as Flettner did.

Preliminary try at using the pressure and MAP sensor at the exhaust port to detect a drop in pressure when the pipe wave action collapses during over run. MAP pressure drops below ambient when accelerating ( 30% TPS ) and increases to greater than ambient on overrun. Not what was expected at all, I was expecting it to show high pressure during acceleration and a drop on overrun not increase??.

I suspect your answer may be here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitot_tube

Frits, I have a question on the above pic. Is the crankcase lower half also machined for the disc valve as well? Otherwise the valve could flop about cos it'd be unsupported.

Are you pulling my leg Ken? Attachment 329483 shows the both the upper and lower crankcase half.

[JanBros]

But instead of varying the disc angle on the fly it is simpler and more effective to vary the width of the inlet opening in the disc cover, as Flettner did.

on second look, isn't that sliding piece a serious flow disturber ? so in the end for performance it might be more complicated but better for performance to use varying disc angle ?

[Frits Overmars]

on second look, isn't that sliding piece a serious flow disturber ? so in the end for performance it might be more complicated but better for performance to use varying disc angle ?

You may well be right, Jan. But Flettner is planning to use that sliding piece also as a throttle, in which case it should disturb the flow.

[husaberg]

I suspect your answer may be here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitot_tube

Some further reading for TZ he might need to reverse engineer it a bit for his application.
http://www.spartgsxrspecials.com/tur...and%20dont.htm

[Flettner]

on second look, isn't that sliding piece a serious flow disturber ? so in the end for performance it might be more complicated but better for performance to use varying disc angle ?

Jan, I don't think the sliding Gib is too much of a problem, after all as Frits said the throttle 40mm further upstream is a restriction anyway. This power curve is a lot better than without the variable housing.
As Frits also noted in my next version this gib will be the throttle as well, with a leading and trailing gib. With a bit of luck these slides will be ECU operated.
I would like to revisit Robs dyno again some time because I've widened the exhaust port and adjusted both fuel and timing since this curve was done, It's a lot more frightening to ride now.
This is rear wheel HP
1973 350cc