ESE's works engine tuner

[seattle smitty]

Geeting here maybe late to add my one-cent worth to Marsheng's sleeve topic, but here's another possible (??) option: In outboard racing, with a lake full of cool water rammed into, through, and out, iron-sleeved engines have worked fine, with sufficient heat transfer. Konig's engines, which came with cast-in iron sleeves (of varied quality, and often replaced with home-made sleeves) had a feature you could think about. The upper maybe 35mm of the sleeve was directly exposed to water. This part had a somewhat larger outside diameter than the rest of the sleeve, acting as a flange against the aluminum block casting, a few mm above the top of the exhaust port. Try this link for a photo of a similar sleeve: https://www.google.com/search?q=koni...xIa1M:&spf=212

Now, the upper part of that outboard motor sleeve, directly exposed to water, is smooth. For a motorcycle that has to carry its own supply of much warmer water, how about making your iron sleeve with that upper section of a much larger O.D. so that you could then take something like a narrow parting tool and turn a series of cooling fins, for water rather than air, into that section? Would that greatly increased area of exposure to coolant answer the problem of heat transfer, while leaving you with what you might see as the advantages of a (properly-fit) pressed or heat-shrunk iron sleeve? Many existing cylinders could not be altered to take this sleeve configuration, but some could.

[Tim Ey]

See pictures attached.

Please note that all pictures represents 0,04 kg/s even if otherwise stated.

Jan Thiels statement that the flow is attached to the bottom of the transfers, is clearly also observed in the simulations!

Hey Norman,
may you show us some colored section views through the exhaust ports? I would like to see the speeds in the exhaust - specialy in the auxilaries.

I have an idea what might have been the problem on those exhausts of the early Aprilia / Rotax cylinders. The exhausts of the latest cylinders are looking quite different.

Thank you (and your colleague) for this very informative work!
Kindest Regards
Tim

[G Jones]

Yes, you can compensate by entering a low value for the speed of sound; that should get you in the ball park.

Just thought I'd put the numbers from a TZ350 into the Fospipe tool - @10500rpm target rpm - the exhaust length is near the same as TZ350G pipe - (whatever target HP is entered) - although the belly diameter is significantly larger (110 > 141.8) ...good starting point ?

[wobbly]

The 3G3 TZ works well with the 960 odd TL, but you would have to be a genius pipe builder to get a set any fatter than 110 to fit on the thing.

[Grumph]

The 3G3 TZ works well with the 960 odd TL, but you would have to be a genius pipe builder to get a set any fatter than 110 to fit on the thing.

Should be possible to fit on a sidecar....But is it worth doing ?

[husaberg]

The 3G3 TZ works well with the 960 odd TL, but you would have to be a genius pipe builder to get a set any fatter than 110 to fit on the thing.

I remember someone saying not to go over 110mm on any of the yamaha early twins up to the TZR's to avoid over scavenging an already too small crankcase?

[Frits Overmars]

Konig's engines, which came with cast-in iron sleeves (of varied quality, and often replaced with home-made sleeves) had a feature you could think about.

Smitty, nowadays I wouldn't attach too much value to the details of a 500 cc four-cylinder two-stroke racing engine that produces 75 hp on petrol.
And I would not advocate the use of iron sleeves in any case.

[G Jones]

Should be possible to fit on a sidecar....But is it worth doing ?

Sidecar is the intended use...
When I built a new chassis - and new bodywork - I tried to leave a lot more room for the pipes than the previous bike had - on that bike the bodywork was very close to the 110mm pipes...

In view of Husaberg's comments re

"over scavenging a already small crankcase?"

maybe not worth the effort - unless there are other things that can be adjusted to suit the fatter pipes.

[G Jones]

I thought it was interesting to see how close the 2 pipes were - apart from the fat belly of course - whether it's any use is another thing entirely...

[Frits Overmars]

Just thought I'd put the numbers from a TZ350 into the Fospipe tool - @10500rpm target rpm - the exhaust length is near the same as TZ350G pipe - (whatever target HP is entered) - although the belly diameter is significantly larger (110 > 141.8) ...good starting point ?

I thought it was interesting to see how close the 2 pipes were - apart from the fat belly of course - whether it's any use is another thing entirely...

I'd like to make it clear that this 'Fospipe tool' that you used, does not come from me. You only need to look at the number of cones. Here is my FOS exhaust concept:

[G Jones]

I'd like to make it clear that this 'Fospipe tool' that you used, does not come from me. You only need to look at the number of cones. Here is my FOS exhaust concept:

I apologise for that - I hadn't realised that your original idea had been used by someone else - although they do call it "fospipe" - with a few experimental pipe additions - again sorry if I caused you any problems..

[Frits Overmars]

I apologise for that - I hadn't realised that your original idea had been used by someone else - although they do call it "fospipe" - with a few experimental pipe additions -
again sorry if I caused you any problems..

No worries; you didn't. But I'd prefer that people who write programs using my concepts, wouldn't attach my name to their products.

[wobbly]

The TZ350 - 3G3 with six transfer ports is very happy with much fatter pipes - perfect on a sidecar setup.
It has little to do with the case volume, and everything to do with the transfers ability to control the scavenging streams at BDC when the diffuser is sucking like hell on the Ex port.
The 6 port configuration has much better ducts, and the smaller individual ports have way better ability to keep the in flowing streams coherent.
You are right though, the volume is too small, but thats easily fixed by utilizing RD400 cases.
If you are really keen then use the 3G3 casting and weld on reed boxes, making it like a Kenny Roberts OW of the period.
This then allows another couple of boost ports up the back.
The very best setup though in this case would be a G - 250 cylinder bored to 64,the reeds welded on and the cylinder turned around.
If you then use waisted studs, the inlet port width can be huge, and you can also add Aux Ex ports.
A killer engine, that is as we speak, being built to go into a LSR streamliner.

[peewee]

You are right though, the volume is too small, but thats easily fixed by utilizing RD400 cases.
.

don't know what size the pins are but maybe can use the ktm118 rods. its still collecting dust in the corner of the garage but I put some 118rods and Suzuki thrust washers on my banshee. fit like a glove . cant remember the wristpin but I think its Suzuki also, been a while since I been to that corner of the garage

[F5 Dave]

Well I've finally managed to get some time again and dynod the RZ350 (+7mm crank and CPI barrels 496cc) with the 8 plate clutch. And after, ahem, tying it down a bit tighter, got some readings where it actually peaked without spinning up and losing the trace. But all is not rosy. Its got a decent hole in the power. 6 transfers but ducts aren't marvelous.

So I took the fuse out of the ypvs control and you can see it fills the gap from 6200-7200. I'll have to sort that with a new controller or go Ignitech. But the dip from 5500-6 stays. I take airbox off and that really helps the rest of the curve, but ran out of jets to see if that's just mixture. A jet leaner without doesn't help that area appreciably. And that 5-6 dip remains.

First pic PV locked low vs opening but too early. Click 3 times.
2nd pic without airbox.

Bearing in mind this is a roadbike and I chose 35mm pwk to try bolster lower revs. I was rolling it on to full from just below 5ish.

Thoughts?