ESE's works engine tuner

[Flettner]

[QUOTE=Brett S;1131048534]Here's an old Rotax patent from 2004 with twin conventional injectors in CC=US&NR=6691649B2&KC=B2&FT=D&ND=&date=20040217&DB=&locale=#"]CLICK HER[/URL]E
/QUOTE]

That looks like their second development cylinder attempt, the first 'click here'

[TZ350]

My original post has a lot of links to interesting 2T EFI projects like this one:- EFI CR250 https://youtu.be/VlHyRcmlLgU

http://www.supermototecnica.com/2015/09/10/sviluppi-del-sistema-iniezione-diretta-indiretta-due-tempi/

Fuel Burn in a side valve 4T https://youtu.be/jdW1t8r8qYc

4T Visible fuel burn https://youtu.be/31mtOdHGbB4

This guy has posted on YouTube a whole lot of slow motion videos of a B&S engine with a clear plastic head burning different fuels. Very interesting that petrol showed the sort of visible combustion flame you would expect and Acetone showed no flame color at all.

[41juergen]

Here is the file that gives good dyno correlation for the RSW.

Perfect, thank's Wob...

[jamathi]

We used a dyno room temperature of 27°C at Aprilia.
It 'cost' us some power.....about 1,5.
But it was the average temperature of the various circuits we raced on!
It also was very comfortable in the winter....

[41juergen]

We used a dyno room temperature of 27°C at Aprilia.
It 'cost' us some power.....
But it was the average temperature of the various circuits we raced on!

Jan, the engine took the air out of the cell, right? So no specific "single" air handling system supplying only "intake air"?

[husaberg]

Husaberg, your the search engine of choice, can you find the KTM patent on this new TPI system? Keep digging until you get traction.
Mostly interested in the date it was filed.

Not Ktm but interesting
http://papers.sae.org/2012-32-0115/

I think this predates the Flettner TPI.
https://www.google.com/patents/US6691649

KTMs patents might be related to the electronic oil injection.
Whicjh i believe are held by the Mikuni or Keihin

[guyhockley]

Originally Posted by 1948rod

Hi I have a reverse cylinder tz250 in pieces. It has spare y1 and y2 cylinders. Can these cylinders be bored out to fit Tz 350 Pistons to put onto a kart for hill climbing.

No idea but unlikely, Hans Hummel made a 350 cylinder conversion kit for the V twin though.

Originally Posted by 1948rod

Are the Tz cylinders Able to be fitted to a spare Rgv bottom end.

Anythings possible given enough time and money
Originally Posted by 1948rod
Would these cylinders be much better than bored out rgv barrels.



No need to bore out RGV cylinders use either Arctic Cat ZRT600 2001 cylinders or RG200 they both bolt on to RGV's
As do RG150 wolf.

If this article is typical, the Hans Hummel conversion is slightly bigger than 350, might require a lot of engineering just to fit in a 350 class? A bloke who was trying very hard to sell me some HH350 barrels claimed they used standard KTM 250 pistons. Those ones were for a reverse cylinder TZ, no idea about interchangeability with other Yams.
There was also a Roll TZ360 conversion, try searching on
http://www.igkoenigsklasse.de
There used to be siegertyamaha.com that sold stuff like that but the website seems to have died.

Closer to (my) home, the F350 sidecar class now seems to be flooded with Banshee motors, but, previously, there were Yam V-twin 350s and at least one competitor (John Crick?) had a 350 RGV. Some, or all, of these may have come from George Hardwick (GHR) who has unfortunately now died and his website is gone as well.
NB. I've no involvement or experience with F350 so the above is just based on reading reports in BSN, perhaps Mr Jones may correct me if I've misremembered.

A couple of UK tuners did 300 big bores for RGV/RS250 engines, at one point, Wiseco UK listed the 60mm piston in their catalogue.
I looked at RGVs for a project and seem to remember they have a very wide ratio gearbox or maybe just a really low 1st?

[jamathi]

Jan, the engine took the air out of the cell, right? So no specific "single" air handling system supplying only "intake air"?

We had an air conditioned dyno room where we could use the temperature and humidity we wanted.
The results were corrected for atmospheric pressure.
Our measurements were very precise and repeatable.
Air 'quality' was another matter.
I had the oxygen content measured, it varied from 19-21% in a week.
This explained some 'unexplainable' differences from day to day.

[husaberg]

If this article is typical, the Hans Hummel conversion is slightly bigger than 350, might require a lot of engineering just to fit in a 350 class? A bloke who was trying very hard to sell me some HH350 barrels claimed they used standard KTM 250 pistons. Those ones were for a reverse cylinder TZ, no idea about interchangeability with other Yams.
There was also a Roll TZ360 conversion, try searching on
http://www.igkoenigsklasse.de
There used to be siegertyamaha.com that sold stuff like that but the website seems to have died.

Closer to (my) home, the F350 sidecar class now seems to be flooded with Banshee motors, but, previously, there were Yam V-twin 350s and at least one competitor (John Crick?) had a 350 RGV. Some, or all, of these may have come from George Hardwick (GHR) who has unfortunately now died and his website is gone as well.
NB. I've no involvement or experience with F350 so the above is just based on reading reports in BSN, perhaps Mr Jones may correct me if I've misremembered.

A couple of UK tuners did 300 big bores for RGV/RS250 engines, at one point, Wiseco UK listed the 60mm piston in their catalogue.
I looked at RGVs for a project and seem to remember they have a very wide ratio gearbox or maybe just a really low 1st?

Pretty sure there was a few versions with different capascities there was a 54mm stroke and a 50.6mm one.
I think they were originally made for a German (whose name escapes me) that ran one in the 500GP class. this was before the Aprilia "super bored 250" effort.
It used to stand out as it seemed to be doing half the revs of the rest of the feild.
It could beat a RS500 honda which were still running about at the rear of the feild until the Harris and ROC yamahas became available.
They had to be bigger than 350cc as a result of the old rule to prevent the likes of tz350's running with the big boys.
The rule was never altered when the 350 class was dropped.

people here run the nsr300's that have NSR150 cylinders on NSR250's.
At least one i understand is working on a long stroke crank to get it close to the F3 limit. of 400cc for a road based 2t.
Most of the RGV300s are simply made out of the RG150 cylinders.
if you want to add a earlier RG250 crank 54mm stroke you could make up a pretty decent engine but i don't think the gearbox is that reliable.
you can get dry clutch and close ratio gears for the rgv but the RS honda stuff and the F3 stuff for relevent years is far more common and fits, as does the TZ stuff in the TZR v twins.
TZR V twins twins were never that common here not sure why. Yet we brought in shit loads of Japanese imports (grey in the UK) but most were NSR or RGV.

[koenich]

Which i believe are held by the Mikuni or Keihin

In one video (can't recall which though) it was mentioned that it might be a Mikuni patent and that is also the reason they switched to Mikuni carbs for the '17 models.

[Peter1962]

In one video (can't recall which though) it was mentioned that it might be a Mikuni patent and that is also the reason they switched to Mikuni carbs for the '17 models.

I do not understand how any firm could obtain a patent, for a technique where there are clearly examples of people who experiment with variations on the same theme since years...
Is this bluff poker from KTM ?

[Moooools]

I do not understand how any firm could obtain a patent, for a technique where there are clearly examples of people who experiment with variations on the same theme since years...
Is this bluff poker from KTM ?

1. The patent could be quite old.
2. The patent application could have left out prior art knowingly, and accepted that the patent may be invalidated should someone with deep enough pockets try.
3. The patent could be much narrower than simply 'transfer port injection'. It could, for instance, include independent claims surrounding injector spray patterns, ECU control methods etc.
4. Some other reason not obvious to us. Patents are complex to deal with, hence the need for patent attorneys.

[guyhockley]

Pretty sure there was a few versions with different capascities there was a 54mm stroke and a 50.6mm one.
I think they were originally made for a German (whose name escapes me) that ran one in the 500GP class. this was before the Aprilia "super bored 250" effort.
It used to stand out as it seemed to be doing half the revs of the rest of the feild.
It could beat a RS500 honda which were still running about at the rear of the feild until the Harris and ROC yamahas became available.
They had to be bigger than 350cc as a result of the old rule to prevent the likes of tz350's running with the big boys.
The rule was never altered when the 350 class was dropped.

people here run the nsr300's that have NSR150 cylinders on NSR250's.
At least one i understand is working on a long stroke crank to get it close to the F3 limit. of 400cc for a road based 2t.
Most of the RGV300s are simply made out of the RG150 cylinders.
if you want to add a earlier RG250 crank 54mm stroke you could make up a pretty decent engine but i don't think the gearbox is that reliable.
you can get dry clutch and close ratio gears for the rgv but the RS honda stuff and the F3 stuff for relevent years is far more common and fits, as does the TZ stuff in the TZR v twins.
TZR V twins twins were never that common here not sure why. Yet we brought in shit loads of Japanese imports (grey in the UK) but most were NSR or RGV.

RG crank centre is quite different to the RGV, is it easily interchangeable?
Here's a Hummel 375 with a 54mm crank:
http://www.geckomotorcycles.co.uk/ma...-bore-kit.html

[guyhockley]

Just found that I'd saved this from the GHR website. He had a 500 triple, too but don't seem to have anything on that.

[monkeyfumi]

Most of the RGV300s are simply made out of the RG150 cylinders.

No, they are just bored out and replated standard cylinders (with all the compromises that brings)